What's up with 1.8 auto fuel economy? - Civinfo
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post #1 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 11:00 Thread Starter
 
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What's up with 1.8 auto fuel economy?

Third test drive yesterday. Pram fits in boot (tilt the seat slightly, slide in pram and lock seat back in place) which is a demand. However, driving approximately 30 miles on main roads and a little on motorway I only averaged 41.5 mpg using the Eco button. Disappointed with that, I must say. EU mix for main road is 56.5 mpg, and was hoping to achieve 50.

Didn't use aircon. Engine only had 4K miles on it and 8-10 degrees celsius outside temperature.

So, I din't even match combined EU (44) on main road doing between 55 and 60 miles per hour.

The low revs on motorway was a plus though although this should have meant better mpg too.

EWind noise from left wing mirror and and when turning the wheel and low speed, I felt a bit of weird "resistance".

What did I do wrong with regards to mpg?
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post #2 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 12:38
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Colder weather tends to increase fuel consumption as the petrol engine is very sensitive to fuel to air ratio and colder air is denser which means more air gets into the engine and therefore more fuel is injected.

The colder weather also increases the period that the engine spends warming up where it uses more fuel.

The engine is also new so it has to spend time to "bed in." This means the engine has more energy lost from friction because the contacting surfaces are pressing together with more force than an engine with more miles which will have worn the faces a little.

It is also worth checking the tyre pressures are correct as these can influence the MPG.
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post #3 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 15:19 Thread Starter
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I am aware of all this. I take it for granted that the dealer checks tyre pressures on a regular basis to make sure they're always spot on.

Still negatively surprised with MPG.

Another engine/power question.

Comparing the 1.6 GDI Kia Ceed Dual Clutch model to Civic Auto:

Civic:

0-62: 11.2 seconds
Torque: 174 NM/ 4.300 rpm
BHP: 142 at 6,500 rpm
Top Speed: 130 MPH
Displacement: 1,798 cm3
Kerb weight: 1.381 kilos


Ceed Station Wagon

0-62: 10.2 secs
Top speed 121 mph
MPG 44 MPG combined
BHP: 135/6.300 rpm
Torque: 164 NM /4.850 rpm
Displacement 1.598 cm3
Kerb weight: 1.410 kilos

I'd appreciate if someone could school me on engines/power/torque etc.

Civic has larger displacement, more torque and BHP along with bigger displacement and lower kern weight. Yet it is still slower in the 0-60 sprint. When will I notice the civic's more power compared to the ceed?
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post #4 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 15:21
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Originally Posted by nicolaidenmark View Post
What did I do wrong with regards to mpg?
I dont think you did anything wrong, it's simply that the EU standardised tests are to allow comparisons between different models and different manufacturers, for real world mpg you need to look elsewhere, at spritmonitor.de or HonestJohn for instance.

Since December I'm getting 44mpg for 9G auto and 41mpg for 8G Ishift for the same journeys, the main difference is I have winter tyres on 8G and use that in the worst weather conditions.

Even for the same daily journey the mpg on trip computer varies from 45 to 50 going to work and 40 to 45 returning home. The official figures are not true to real driving.
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post #5 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 15:47 Thread Starter
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I know one should probably estimate lower than the EU norm. But on the same cruize, I bet I could have 50 mpg from my 1.3 swift i-shift and, while smaller then the civic, it's from 2006. On a on a 55 mile trip to my parents on a summers day I have once had the onboard swift computer read 57 mpg.

All of this said, a Danish reviewer drove the 1.8 manual sport (ES uk trim) and averaged 42 mpg. doing between 80 and 100 mph on the german autobahn. What he diud and how he did it, I do not know.

By the way: I was very impressed with the low rpms on the motorway in the Civic. Does anyone know if the eco mode simulates a 6th gear in the auto box? Using the paddles 5th was the highest (as it's a five speed) but I think the rpms were so low that maybe the eco button simulates a 6th?.

The RPMs were MUCH lower than in my 1.3 swift at identical speed.
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post #6 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 15:52
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I think 50 mpg (average) is too optimistic for the 1.8 auto. My old 8G 1.8 auto averaged out at 38mpg and this one is currently averaging 44mpg. I expect the 44 to increase slightly with the warmer weather and as the engine loosens up a bit.

I'm only realisticly expecting a 45mpg average at best.
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post #7 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolaidenmark View Post
I am aware of all this. I take it for granted that the dealer checks tyre pressures on a regular basis to make sure they're always spot on.

Still negatively surprised with MPG.

Another engine/power question.

Comparing the 1.6 GDI Kia Ceed Dual Clutch model to Civic Auto:

Civic:

0-62: 11.2 seconds
Torque: 174 NM/ 4.300 rpm
BHP: 142 at 6,500 rpm
Top Speed: 130 MPH
Displacement: 1,798 cm3
Kerb weight: 1.381 kilos


Ceed Station Wagon

0-62: 10.2 secs
Top speed 121 mph
MPG 44 MPG combined
BHP: 135/6.300 rpm
Torque: 164 NM /4.850 rpm
Displacement 1.598 cm3
Kerb weight: 1.410 kilos

I'd appreciate if someone could school me on engines/power/torque etc.

Civic has larger displacement, more torque and BHP along with bigger displacement and lower kern weight. Yet it is still slower in the 0-60 sprint. When will I notice the civic's more power compared to the ceed?
Dual clutch systems change gear faster. Also they tend to have more gears and they are shorter, therefore the torque at the wheels is greater and hence get more performance.

I think your engine just needs to bed in a bit more, it is very new. The cold weather is definitely not helping.
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post #8 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:01 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kremmen View Post
I think 50 mpg (average) is too optimistic for the 1.8 auto. My old 8G 1.8 auto averaged out at 38mpg and this one is currently averaging 44mpg. I expect the 44 to increase slightly with the warmer weather and as the engine loosens up a bit.

I'm only realisticly expecting a 45mpg average at best.
You've have misunderstood me:

I was expecting 50 mpg (average for the TEST DRIVE) as the test drive was only on main road (on which the EU mix is 60 mpg).

In daily life with equal amount of urban extra urban and city , I'd be happy to get 44 mpg average.

I do a lot of city driving though and many cold starts as my car is a car for a disabled driver.
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post #9 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:03 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta0 View Post
Dual clutch systems change gear faster. Also they tend to have more gears and they are shorter, therefore the torque at the wheels is greater and hence getting more performance.

I think your engine just needs to bed in a bit more, it is very new. The cold weather is definitely not helping.
Everything else equal, how big an improvement in mpg does a temperature change from 10 to 20 degrees make? And how big is the new / bed in improvement?
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post #10 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolaidenmark View Post
You've have misunderstood me:

I was expecting 50 mpg (average for the TEST DRIVE) as the test drive was only on main road (on which the EU mix is 60 mpg).

In daily life with equal amount of urban extra urban and city , I'd be happy to get 44 mpg average.

I do a lot of city driving though and many cold starts as my car is a car for a disabled driver.
If you are cruising at around 50-60mph on a hot day, with no hills and no acceleration/deceleration then you can get those figures. They rely on highly ideal situations. I have managed to exceed the the extra-urban MPG in my 8G. It just comes down to conditions and driving style.
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post #11 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:13 Thread Starter
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Can a car a torque converter perform engine braking. How do I "activate" it? For MPG it is better for my swfit to be in neutral than just not touching the accelerator going down hills.

Does the 5 speed auto in a Honda have a clutch that can wear out and what maintenance should be done at what milage to it?
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post #12 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:17
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Just to clear up my figures ...

My daily 20 mile each way journey is mainly clear motorways at 60mph and free flowing A roads at 50 mph. No stop start town driving at all.

... and so far I've only achieved between 43 and 47 mpg per week with the average being whatever is on the left (in the panel) via SpritMonitor

However, one thing I am noticing is that the trip computer figures are opposite to the 8G figures. On the 8G the trip comp would always register about 3 mpg more than dividing miles travelled by fuel put in.
My 9G is so far the other way and I am getting about 2 mpg more (actual) versus the trip comp figure.
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post #13 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolaidenmark View Post
Everything else equal, how big an improvement in mpg does a temperature change from 10 to 20 degrees make? And how big is the new / bed in improvement?
You will be looking at around 4% density change in air for 20-10 C change. Also this means more drag (by 4% too). There is also the consideration that the engine will take longer to warm up so that contributes to extra fuel being injected.
Most engines take more than 10k miles (16k km) to bed in. This varies a lot with engines, it could be 5-10% difference.
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post #14 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:30 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kremmen View Post
Just to clear up my figures ...

My daily 20 mile each way journey is mainly clear motorways at 60mph and free flowing A roads at 50 mph. No stop start town driving at all.

... and so far I've only achieved between 43 and 47 mpg per week with the average being whatever is on the left (in the panel) via SpritMonitor

However, one thing I am noticing is that the trip computer figures are opposite to the 8G figures. On the 8G the trip comp would always register about 3 mpg more than dividing miles travelled by fuel put in.
My 9G is so far the other way and I am getting about 2 mpg more (actual) versus the trip comp figure.

Means that hoping for 51 as "a road average" is too optimistic then?

Thing is my 2006 1.3 swift has almost identical EU mix compared to the civic. But it seems the civic has a harder time living up to it?

How does one set the cruise control and change from L/100 km to KM/L? Detailed instructions appreciated.
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post #15 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:33
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Can't help with the conversion as mine is UK and came set as MPG.
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post #16 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:36 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta0 View Post
You will be looking at around 4% density change in air for 20-10 C change. Also this means more drag (by 4% too). There is also the consideration that the engine will take longer to warm up so that contributes to extra fuel being injected.
Most engines take more than 10k miles (16k km) to bed in. This varies a lot with engines, it could be 5-10% difference.

My bad. Meant from 10-20 degrees.
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post #17 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:47
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My bad. Meant from 10-20 degrees.
It is roughly 3-4% reduction in air density and 3-4% reduction drag going from 10 to 20 degrees.
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post #18 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolaidenmark View Post
All of this said, a Danish reviewer drove the 1.8 manual sport (ES uk trim) and averaged 42 mpg. doing between 80 and 100 mph on the german autobahn. What he diud and how he did it, I do not know.
My best was 56 mpg for a 18 mile motorway journey with some roadworks, so it's possible to get high numbers, but it doesn't happen every day

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolaidenmark View Post
By the way: I was very impressed with the low rpms on the motorway in the Civic. Does anyone know if the eco mode simulates a 6th gear in the auto box? Using the paddles 5th was the highest (as it's a five speed) but I think the rpms were so low that maybe the eco button simulates a 6th?.
ECO mode doesn't change the RPM for a given speed, just reduces the throttle response, you have to press the accelerator further to get the same response as non eco mode. If you try cruise control + eco you see a difference in the time it takes to accelerate.
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post #19 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 16:50
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Originally Posted by Kremmen View Post
Just to clear up my figures ...

My daily 20 mile each way journey is mainly clear motorways at 60mph and free flowing A roads at 50 mph. No stop start town driving at all.

... and so far I've only achieved between 43 and 47 mpg per week with the average being whatever is on the left (in the panel) via SpritMonitor
Can you remember your iShift mpg out of interest?
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post #20 of 83 (permalink) Old 15th April 2013, 17:00
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The way the tests are done are on a large treadmill in a airplane hanger type of room.

They set the car off and it just drives.

Does not calculate, weight of cargo(extra weight means more effort to get car moving), but wind resistance is the big one here.
D
Doesn't help that automatics have worse MPG to start with.
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