Mike's Accord CTDi - The Sleeper! - Page 8 - Civinfo
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post #141 of 157 (permalink) Old 21st November 2015, 19:55
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Originally Posted by Trevor7979 View Post
The MAP sensor sends air flow data to the ECU which then maps vacuum requirements to the N75 solenoid. Wonder if something needs tweaking in the ECU?
Yip… there's quite a few tables in there dealing with all that… <.<

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Car not yet gone into limp mode, but to be fair my lovely wife has been with me, which constrains me!
Lol Yes… she's the extra torque limiter

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post #142 of 157 (permalink) Old 17th December 2015, 19:27 Thread Starter
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Well, I finally got a (working) ELM327 through (initial replacement one was kaput, next one literally came on a slow boat from China!), so now that I could reset if I conked out I stuck V3 back on...

Still makes a massive difference over the old S2 - boost was usually sticking to 25 psi, but as time went on started heading back to 30 ish. No limp yet, but it's only a matter of time.

Having had a lot of time to think about it, if the main issue is over-boosting, would it not be a possibility to fit a 25psi Dump Valve just prior to the intake? If it's what the ECU is asking for then it should just insure that the boost stays where the ECU wants it (keeping it happy), ensures any excess is vented and should keep the turbo, and power, in the right spot.

Thoughts?

(Also - any progress with new MAP sensor, or revised actuator settings?)
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post #143 of 157 (permalink) Old 19th December 2015, 12:13 Thread Starter
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Now I'm on holiday, there's been a few other issues that I have been putting off sorting due to lack of time.

First my Twin Plate. Engagement is fine (heavy, but ok), but selecting gears is getting harder and harder. My MiL drove the car a week back and both her and my wife pushing on the Gear Lever still couldn't get first gear. It's not just them, I have to really ram it in too (oo-er! ). It only really loosens up on the move and the other gears can be a bit baulky too. The gearbox has been a bit iffy for a long time before the clutch, so I suspect it's just had enough after 130K re-mapped miles. I suspect I need a second-hand gearbox, although I'm not ruling out a clutch installation error, or similar.

The plan is to chat to TDi North to see what they think, as I don't want to order a second-hand gearbox unless I'm fairly sure that's the issue. I can then get it up to them to sort out properly, as well as sort out a distinctly unhappy OSR noise, which I suspect is a hub or wheel bearing that needs replacing.

Second, I want to re-set my actuator before I continue digging into the Turbo. It's still going OK on V3 (199bhp) - boost seems to try to hit 25, but sometimes will shoot higher. I suspect Trev's point about the actuator settings and when the VNT is actually closed is a good one, but want to get mine in a known good state first.

Therefore I'm getting a small vacuum pump and will adjust mine using that. @Trev - I know you're trying a -5.5 PSi setting just now, but do you know what the stock setting is? If not, how are you finding 5.5 PSi?

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post #144 of 157 (permalink) Old 19th December 2015, 13:15
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I had TDiNorth fit my CC single and gear changes were frankly shocking.

Raising the bit point on the clutch pedal helped but it was still dire.

Ripping out the clutch damper has given me a crackin clutch that's both light and high.

Does your Accord have a clutch damper tho?

Another possibility is that TDiNorth used a vacuum to bleed my clutch. I forced the fluid from the reservoir and found this much more effective, even with the damper still present.

I hope you get it sorted.
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post #145 of 157 (permalink) Old 19th December 2015, 14:10 Thread Starter
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Not sure Farqs - I'll dig into lings later. IIRC the pre-facelift doesn't but the latest I-DTEC does. Suspect my facelift one won't.

ETA - looks like it doesn't: http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda...&block_03=3063

Can't see it on there, even when compared to your lings diagram in your build thread.

BTW - is it a twin plate you have?

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post #146 of 157 (permalink) Old 19th December 2015, 23:49
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Nope, it doesn't look like yours has a damper.

Mine is a single plate clutch.

Your issue could still be due to the hydraulics, have it re-bled.

Have you had the master or slave cylinders changed recently?
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post #147 of 157 (permalink) Old 20th December 2015, 05:46
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Kinda mentioned the 4 bar sensor on my thread… To summarise: easy enough to fit and change the map for it. It didn't make any difference to the boost though. The only thing I've noticed is that when mine spikes above 30psi (2 bar), the ECU seems to compensate and react better than it used to. Which makes sense since the new map sensor would allow the ECU to get a boost reading above 30 psi now.

Annoyingly, the OBD2 boost reading still only goes to 22.5psi (1.5 bar). -_-!
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post #148 of 157 (permalink) Old 20th December 2015, 05:52
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Oh, and fitting a dump valve would be a bad idea. Fitting the dump valve would stop the overboost, but it's going to cause the turbo to over rev. Effectively we're running a closed loop boost system and the ECU is supposed to be controlling it.

An external wastegate system may work better, but that'll be really expensive to sort out properly (custom exhaust manifold, etc)… We just need to get the boost control right with the actuator/ECU settings.
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post #149 of 157 (permalink) Old 20th December 2015, 11:25 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farqui View Post
Have you had the master or slave cylinders changed recently?
Master cylinder was changed alongside the Clutch - good point! I'll try and bleed it today.

I also got my wife to show me what she and my MiL had done when they couldn't get it to engage at all. Basically MiL, despite saying she had, hadn't fully depressed the Clutch - hence it wasn't engaging gears. I was able to replicate the issue exactly by depressing it 9/10 or so, but when the pedal was fully down my wife was able to select gears fine. The extra weight was obviously a bit too much for MiL.

It's still way too difficult to engage gears, but I'm now looking at the Clutch more (although I DO think the GB is tired!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by aBigSavage1 View Post
Kinda mentioned the 4 bar sensor on my thread… To summarise: easy enough to fit and change the map for it. It didn't make any difference to the boost though. The only thing I've noticed is that when mine spikes above 30psi (2 bar), the ECU seems to compensate and react better than it used to. Which makes sense since the new map sensor would allow the ECU to get a boost reading above 30 psi now.

Annoyingly, the OBD2 boost reading still only goes to 22.5psi (1.5 bar). -_-!
Sorry - hadn't seen that - will have a look (just don't have time just now!!). Mine seems to be having a bit more success in keeping things at 25 Psi, so there's been no issues yet. If I see the gauge creep to 30 I just ease off. Seems to work. May well try the 4 Bar one though.

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Oh, and fitting a dump valve would be a bad idea... An external wastegate system may work better, but that'll be really expensive to sort out properly...
Thought the answer might be that .
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post #150 of 157 (permalink) Old 20th December 2015, 11:30
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Ah okay, let us know how you get on.

Maybe have a look at adjusting the clutch pedal, you may get enough free play there to engage gears.
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post #151 of 157 (permalink) Old 7th January 2017, 19:05 Thread Starter
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Finis!

Well - I thought I'd update this finally, as Farqs requested way back 2 years (!?) ago... and the news is good (sort of)!

First, I had to remove my Twin Plate and put my 325 clutch back in, as the growing problems with the Twin Plate meant it was becoming undriveable. As the car was also still continually going into limp mode I also reverted back to a known good Stage 2 map and left it for quite a while.

When I finally started up on it again (Aug last year) I decided to get the Hybrid's VNT actuator position checked up at Turbo Clinic and, seeing as CG Motorsports were only 10 minutes away, also took my Twin Plate in to get it looked at.

Once I explained the issues CG seemed confident they could get it working, so I left it with them and headed off to Turbo Clinic where they adjusted the VNT actuator to The stock setting of 5.5 PSi. However, the car still kept on dying with a fuel pressure fault, so after a bit of fiddling myself, I set off for Celtic to see what they could make of the mapping. This was very much the last-chance saloon as far as I was concerned. I also put the original S3 map back on, so Celtic didn't get Faddy's Stage 2 map for free

Once again, on the way, the car started conking out continually on route. This got progressively worse, so by the time I got there it was almost undriveable (I found out later the actuator adjuster had actually loosened as I was driving - my fault, but at the time Celtic couldn't touch it). I'd just decided to start saving for another project, which I'd had a look at after leaving Celtic that day, so at this point I was back to using the Accord as a tool for saving money (Hypermiling is fun!! ) so I swapped my spare OEM turbo back onto the car (getting quite good at that now) and put the S2 map on and gave up on any further efforts.

At the same time, though, I did get my Twin Plate back. Long story short, the previous installer of my clutch hadn't left enough free-play, so it was constantly partially engaged - with obvious results. It has now been re-faced and installed by someone else and is working perfectly. The pedal now sits very high, but I've got used to it quickly!

However, I kept thinking back to my last discussion with Celtic regarding the Hybrid not conforming to the standard VNT tables etc, which their map still uses, which I suspected was the reason that the Hybrid's boost wasn't being controlled and it was over-boosting. I did ask Celtic if a stock turbo could therefore still use the Stage 3 map and the answer was a qualified yes, with the uprated clutch and FMIC, but obviously there's increased risk, especially at WOT. Having seen a few grenaded Supra turbos in my time this was something I could understand, so that was how I left it...

...until about a week ago, when I thought, sod it!! Seeing as the spare turbo on there had only done 40K miles I thought let's see what actually happens and put one of the tamer S3 maps ABigSavage1 had knocked up on.

What a result! Boost is now controlled, the car hasn't died once and the power delivery means this thing will now legitimately wheel-spin in second from a rolling start! I tried to do another 0-60 video for comparison, but just couldn't get it to hook - eventually I had to feather 1st and be very conservative with 2nd and I still easily equalled the previous videoed time - this thing really shifts and in the usual motorway 50-70, 70-XX type driving, just goes, while remaining perfectly driveable in normal commuting. It's also not died once, no matter how much i tried!

This week I had a bit of spare time, so managed to get over to the Dyno. Pictures paint a thousand words and all that so...



Yay!



In sum, when compared to the Celtic Stage 3 base map you can see my Hybrid, in its best run at 199 hp, was trying to boost to the moon and then staggering big time. The stock turbo, on the less aggressive Stage 3 map, is initially beating (quicker spool), then matching, the Celtic Hybrid and then running out of steam at higher rpm, hence the power drop-off. Plus the map on there is a bit less aggressive.

I also plotted the latest chart vs my stock map:



(ignore the initial high start point of the curves - the source plot doesn't show them and I think I over-egged it a bit estimating them!! )

Overall, this has vindicated that the Hybrid I am running does NOT work with the Celtic Stage 3 map, which isn't a criticism of either the map, or the turbo! If someone who really knows these ECUs gets to work on it, I'm sure they could get it set up fine, just like others have (Trev etc), but I don't want to put any more time and money into this - I'll just keep the stocker on now and if it goes pop, it goes pop! It's not like i'm hooning it about anyway and the power is very satisfying.

Overall, though I'm really impressed with how the little stock turbo has done - a 50% increase over standard power is pretty damn good!

So, in summary. I couldn't get it to work, and I tried! However, I do believe it's a mapping issue fundamentally, which backs up what Trev has said before, but you'd need to spend a lot of time and/or money to resolve it (either by specific mapping, or installing a different Hybrid) and I am not doing that as I don't believe the juice is worth the squeeze.

What I DO have though, is an Accord that is nudging 210hp, that handles brilliantly (A-Spec Suspension) and still gets 55+ mpg when handled carefully. It's also increased my overall mechanical knowledge (with a bit of mapping thrown in too).

Happy with that
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post #152 of 157 (permalink) Old 7th January 2017, 23:33
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About time buddy eh!

Sounds like you've had quite an ordeal but I'm very happy that you eventually took an option that works.

What a journey but you defo learned plenty along the way.

Now it's time to enjoy the fruits of your labour and boost away. I'm not sure your tyres will enjoy it tho
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post #153 of 157 (permalink) Old 14th April 2019, 15:58 Thread Starter
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Thought I'd saunter back in here, blow off the cobwebs and post a bit of an update...

(Hi all! )

After my last post way back when, I'd ended up switching back to a Stage 2 map, after the Clutch master cylinder went. It's not got enough volume to work properly with the twin-plate, so I put my OE clutch in and didn't want to risk blowing it. The map was also still causing occasional limp issues, and I didn't have the time to investigate further. Home life has been a bit hectic - as I now have a 15-month old daughter and another project on the go...



(It doesn't look like that anymore, as I stripped it down to a shell, dipped it and it's now in the middle of body and paint)

... but anyway, it was the end of an era for the Accord, I thought.

Since then the Accord's been doing some long commutes (200 miles daily just now) and has clocked up over 240K miles and was only getting the bare minimum cleaning and maintenance (time vs new baby!). As a result, I was beginning to get itchy, especially as at those miles it's likely to need a turbo, or clutch, or both soon, which will be a lot for the worth of it now.

While I am now actively looking for the next moneypit (which may be a CU2 2.4 Accord, just saying...), I still felt that there was life in the old git yet, and as a swan-song decided to put a milder stage 3 map back on and that, as well as servicing it yesterday, I'd give it some cosmetic TLC, while the little'un was away with the in-laws. I'd also previously cleaned the intake, sensors and EGR out (loads of crap in there!!!).

I started off by polishing the headlights:

Before:


After:


Comparison:


The photos really don't do it justice - it's really lifted the whole front end again. Later I also painted the lower grille, which has been doing sterling duty keeping stones away from the FMIC. Along with a thorough clean, leather re-colour and a few other jobs, it now looks like a new car!



(There's still condensation in the RH Headlight - hence it still looks cloudy. Will sort that later.)

Interestingly, as the Stage 3 has bedded back in, it's been faultless. The OE clutch is even holding up pretty well, although probably not for long. Commuting at slow motorway speeds probably helps mind you, but there's been quite a few recent WOT pulls and it's been fine. I suspect having also recently cleaned the intake and sensors has helped, as they were pretty crudded up and poor MAF readings under load can cause limp... we'll see.

So, I decided to finally get a decent 0-60 vid done today. This is also so I can compare its performance now with whatever I might look to get next and make sure I'm not downgrading!!

Vid here:


Pretty much bang on 7 seconds - not too bad for a FWD grandad-wagon. The in-gear acceleration is immense too - looks like it's going to be a hard decision whether to get rid now...
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post #154 of 157 (permalink) Old 14th April 2019, 20:07
Bye bye Honda...
 
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Glad it's still going strong! My Accord died last year from lack of oil pressure...
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post #155 of 157 (permalink) Old 15th April 2019, 11:52 Thread Starter
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Glad it's still going strong! My Accord died last year from lack of oil pressure...
What caused that - Oil Pump failure, I assume?
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post #156 of 157 (permalink) Old 15th April 2019, 20:14
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What caused that - Oil Pump failure, I assume?
I didn't bother to look! Maybe the pump shaft sheared, or the sprocket key broke, or maybe the chain snapped? It still ran OK, but knocked like hell! A bit disappointing, as I'd replaced both chains myself 3 years earlier... a rear wheel arch was rusting through so I just couldn't be arsed to repair or replace the engine and just sold it complete for spares.

Celtic reckon their stage 1 remap will take my Volvo V60 from the current 178bhp to 215bhp without hardware mods, I am so tempted...
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post #157 of 157 (permalink) Old 16th April 2019, 14:22 Thread Starter
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Celtic reckon their stage 1 remap will take my Volvo V60 from the current 178bhp to 215bhp without hardware mods, I am so tempted...
Having existing FI to play with certainly helps when you're remapping! Makes it so much easier!
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