New HR-V - Civinfo
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post #1 of 103 (permalink) Old 6th May 2015, 11:03 Thread Starter
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New HR-V

I'm quite interested in the new HR-V due this year.

I really like the look of it....boot size is not far of the Civic Hatch.

They are claiming the 1.6 120PS i-dtec unit when in the HR-V can manage 71mpg...and strangely....0-60 in 10.1s....that's 0.1s less than the Civic Hatch official....which seems wrong?

New Honda HR-V | Honda UK

What does everyone else think?

As with the Civic Tourer, be outstanding if the CR-V's 1.6 160PS i-dtec unit was an option in the HR-V but I don't think it will be.
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post #2 of 103 (permalink) Old 6th May 2015, 11:09 Thread Starter
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Can be merged with this if admins see this thread?...

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/other-h...onda-hr-v.html

Didn't see it at HR-V is too short a search term when I did a search first.
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post #3 of 103 (permalink) Old 6th May 2015, 14:16
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Originally Posted by TheCorm View Post
Can be merged with this if admins see this thread?...

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/other-h...onda-hr-v.html

Didn't see it at HR-V is too short a search term when I did a search first.

I like it... Hope we get the LED headlights and not the boring ones they have in Aus... but they do get the 1.8

Car Reviews - Honda HR-V VTi v Mazda CX-3 Maxx : Comparison Review
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post #4 of 103 (permalink) Old 6th May 2015, 17:39 Thread Starter
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I like that the heating controls are touchscreen but on their own touchscreen, i'm not keen on those being part of the satnav/ice touchscreen like in other cars ie Peugeot's.
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post #5 of 103 (permalink) Old 11th May 2015, 17:32
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I have to wonder if Honda are off the money with this one again given the UK engine choice (2 relatively low powered units). I believe they said one of their targets was the Nissan Juke, but Nissan have just launched the Juke Nismo:

First drive: Nissan Juke Nismo RS - BBC Top Gear

215bhp from a 1.6 litre engine.

0-60 in 7 seconds dead and 137mph top speed + a 4 wheel drive version of the same (albeit the latter is spoilt by CVT).

CO2 is still an acceptable 165g (although personally would like it a bit lower for a bit less power) and economy claimed at 39.2mpg (bit low assuming it's combined).

I still question why Honda can't give us a 4WD HRV with a ballpark 180 bhp manual engine to give a vehicle with a balance between economy, emmissions and high performance. I'm sure that isn't out of reach of the new earth dreams 1.5 engine or the 1.6 litre diesel.

To my eyes the HRV looks nice but the performance (10 secs with the 127bhp engine according to Top Speed) is too sterile for anything other than a retirement car and the lack of 4WD is a deal breaker. Why produce a dynamic vehicle aimed at a sector that by and large favours a younger to middle aged buyer, and then only deliver what appears from the BHP figures to be out and out economy versions?

I reckon a HRV with a 0-60 of around 7.5 to 8 secs, 30+ mpg urban and emissions of around 140g would be a real winner with a manual box and a capable 4WD system if Honda kept the price reasonable. I don't think that should be out of reach given current technology, the HRV's size and the light kerb weight of Honda's generally.

Last edited by RA108; 12th May 2015 at 09:45.
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post #6 of 103 (permalink) Old 14th August 2015, 16:40
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Just had an email from Honda saying now available to order

Brochure

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post #7 of 103 (permalink) Old 26th August 2015, 17:26
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I would have to add to what I posted above that the CO2 emissions no longer matter now the new Road Tax structure as been announced.

Although I'm sure no-one wants to pollute the planet and so keeping them as low as possible is good, there's really no excuse for not producing a more powerful HRV now.
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post #8 of 103 (permalink) Old 26th August 2015, 17:33
 
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Who would want to buy a juke nismo if in the market for a hot hatch? same with the need of 4wd in a car not intended to go off the road.
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post #9 of 103 (permalink) Old 27th August 2015, 01:40
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Originally Posted by Mozilla View Post
Who would want to buy a juke nismo if in the market for a hot hatch? same with the need of 4wd in a car not intended to go off the road.
Plenty of people who don't live in inner city Southern Cities have a need for 4WD in winter. Around me, they're very popular for that reason. 1st snow and only 4wd can get out and most of them are soft roaders with only the odd person buying a hardcore 4x4. Around me Rav's are very popular with several 1/2 dozen, then there's a Suzuki 4x4, a BMW X5 and a few Discovery's (although they're a bit more hardcore) and one or two, Tiguans.

I've had 2 Rav4's prior to buying the Civic and changing to the Civic was the worst decision I ever made. Not because I don't like the Civic, but simply because I changed because the bad winters seemed to have finished, then they returned, and now every time it snows, I'm stuck at home. No work, no food shopping, no nothing. So to many people who are suburban up North, 4WD in a soft roader is absolutely a requirement. A 2WD is of no use to me or anyone around me on the outskirts of my city, and that's why you'll only find 4WD versions where I live.

Also, on the performance front, many people like a faster 4wd. That doesn't mean they drive it like a hot hatch, but many like a car with the power to accelerate them out of trouble when needed. You only have to look at sales of the Tiguan and Audi Q3 184 bhp versions and Toyotas 170bhp RAV to see there's plenty of demand for powerful versions of 4x4's.

Practically all the expensive off roaders are high performance eg Range Rover, Porsche Cayenne etc, but we're talking a bit out of sector here with these latter models. However, it proves there's an appetite for performance amongst 4x4 drivers.

To me, on the soft road front, Honda is looking pretty much alone with 2wd lower powered options onl.

I was waiting on the HRV which I could have been tempted by, but it's a definite no from me with the new version. I can't live without 4WD and I don't want a slow vehicle. I predict my next car will probably be a 184 Tiguan, Audi or 170 Rav4, unless we have serious sustained winter global warming in which case, a Civic might just slip in there. However, the latter is unlikely.
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post #10 of 103 (permalink) Old 27th August 2015, 13:14 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsone View Post
I have to wonder if Honda are off the money with this one again given the UK engine choice (2 relatively low powered units). I believe they said one of their targets was the Nissan Juke, but Nissan have just launched the Juke Nismo:

First drive: Nissan Juke Nismo RS - BBC Top Gear

215bhp from a 1.6 litre engine.

0-60 in 7 seconds dead and 137mph top speed + a 4 wheel drive version of the same (albeit the latter is spoilt by CVT).

CO2 is still an acceptable 165g (although personally would like it a bit lower for a bit less power) and economy claimed at 39.2mpg (bit low assuming it's combined).

I still question why Honda can't give us a 4WD HRV with a ballpark 180 bhp manual engine to give a vehicle with a balance between economy, emmissions and high performance. I'm sure that isn't out of reach of the new earth dreams 1.5 engine or the 1.6 litre diesel.

To my eyes the HRV looks nice but the performance (10 secs with the 127bhp engine according to Top Speed) is too sterile for anything other than a retirement car and the lack of 4WD is a deal breaker. Why produce a dynamic vehicle aimed at a sector that by and large favours a younger to middle aged buyer, and then only deliver what appears from the BHP figures to be out and out economy versions?

I reckon a HRV with a 0-60 of around 7.5 to 8 secs, 30+ mpg urban and emissions of around 140g would be a real winner with a manual box and a capable 4WD system if Honda kept the price reasonable. I don't think that should be out of reach given current technology, the HRV's size and the light kerb weight of Honda's generally.
There is a non-Nismo Juke with the 1.6 DIG-T which is 187bhp and offers 0-60 in 7.6 seconds and 240nM peak torque but increases fuel economy to 47 combined and emissions at 139g/km (same as the 8th Gen 2.2 Diesel Civic )

Still waiting for full figures on the HR-V, i'm thinking 0-60 in the i-Dtec will be increased to around 11 seconds due to the extra weight....which doesn't make it a very exciting prospect for anyone who wants more power than the 1.6 i-Dtec Civic offers (including myself).
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post #11 of 103 (permalink) Old 27th August 2015, 13:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsone View Post
Plenty of people who don't live in inner city Southern Cities have a need for 4WD in winter. Around me, they're very popular for that reason. 1st snow and only 4wd can get out and most of them are soft roaders with only the odd person buying a hardcore 4x4. Around me Rav's are very popular with several 1/2 dozen, then there's a Suzuki 4x4, a BMW X5 and a few Discovery's (although they're a bit more hardcore) and one or two, Tiguans.

I've had 2 Rav4's prior to buying the Civic and changing to the Civic was the worst decision I ever made. Not because I don't like the Civic, but simply because I changed because the bad winters seemed to have finished, then they returned, and now every time it snows, I'm stuck at home. No work, no food shopping, no nothing. So to many people who are suburban up North, 4WD in a soft roader is absolutely a requirement. A 2WD is of no use to me or anyone around me on the outskirts of my city, and that's why you'll only find 4WD versions where I live.

Also, on the performance front, many people like a faster 4wd. That doesn't mean they drive it like a hot hatch, but many like a car with the power to accelerate them out of trouble when needed. You only have to look at sales of the Tiguan and Audi Q3 184 bhp versions and Toyotas 170bhp RAV to see there's plenty of demand for powerful versions of 4x4's.

Practically all the expensive off roaders are high performance eg Range Rover, Porsche Cayenne etc, but we're talking a bit out of sector here with these latter models. However, it proves there's an appetite for performance amongst 4x4 drivers.

To me, on the soft road front, Honda is looking pretty much alone with 2wd lower powered options onl.

I was waiting on the HRV which I could have been tempted by, but it's a definite no from me with the new version. I can't live without 4WD and I don't want a slow vehicle. I predict my next car will probably be a 184 Tiguan, Audi or 170 Rav4, unless we have serious sustained winter global warming in which case, a Civic might just slip in there. However, the latter is unlikely.
Just as a point of interest, my Partner and I had the 1 series BMW, which pretty well everyone knows is one of the worst/least/useless vehicles for attempting to drive on snow.

After we fitted a set of winter tyres with their appropriate wheels, it became what I would say must be one of the best. I took it out not expecting much but to be honest I didn't want to bring it back in- hill starts, overtaking stranded cars, you name it, the car become totally confidence inspiring.

Don't know how representative it is, but it's been said most cars with winter wheels/tyres will deal as well or better than 4wd soft roaders with their orig. spec. rubber.
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post #12 of 103 (permalink) Old 27th August 2015, 14:08
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Not tried on my 9g, but a few years ago, in my 8g, I drove across Europe in the snow to Slovakia and when there drove in heavy snow in temps of -11... on all season tyres and it was perfectly fine
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post #13 of 103 (permalink) Old 28th August 2015, 11:31 Thread Starter
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I've looked into the HR-V a bit more....this is interesting the S/SE/EX 0-62 times are 10.0, 10.2 and 10.5 respectively.

Last time I looked (may have been changed) the Civic was shown as 0-62 as 10.2 across all specs.

The same as the Civic the emissions and lowest and mpg highest for the S with the the next specs equipped with 17" wheels being slightly worse.

Obviously heavier cars are going to be slower in their 0-62, but what I am puzzled by is the claim that the HR-V with it's 100kg extra weight over the Civic is apparently no slower to accelerate to 62mph?

Based on the figures and the equipment, I am really temped by the HR-V....it's not as fast as i'd like but if it's do-able when I get the lease list at the end of the year I might go for it....

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post #14 of 103 (permalink) Old 28th August 2015, 13:01
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I've looked into the HR-V a bit more....this is interesting the S/SE/EX 0-62 times are 10.0, 10.2 and 10.5 respectively.

Last time I looked (may have been changed) the Civic was shown as 0-62 as 10.2 across all specs.

The same as the Civic the emissions and mpg are highest for the S with the the next specs equipped with 17" wheels being slightly worse.

Obviously heavier cars are going to be slow 0-62, but what I am puzzled by is the claim that the HR-V with it's 100kg extra weight over the Civic is apparently no slower to accelerate to 62mph?

Based on the figures and the equipment, I am really temped by the HR-V....it's not as fast as i'd like but if it's do-able when I get the lease list at the end of the year I might go for it....
I'm tempted too... As long as it 'Feels' like a SUV version of the Civic rather than the Jazz (I'm fully aware the Civic is based on the Jazz, but you know what I mean)
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post #15 of 103 (permalink) Old 30th August 2015, 11:25
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Just as a point of interest, my Partner and I had the 1 series BMW, which pretty well everyone knows is one of the worst/least/useless vehicles for attempting to drive on snow.

After we fitted a set of winter tyres with their appropriate wheels, it became what I would say must be one of the best. I took it out not expecting much but to be honest I didn't want to bring it back in- hill starts, overtaking stranded cars, you name it, the car become totally confidence inspiring.

Don't know how representative it is, but it's been said most cars with winter wheels/tyres will deal as well or better than 4wd soft roaders with their orig. spec. rubber.
I doubt the latter, although tyres do make a difference.

I had my RAV4 out when there were practically no other vehicles on the road - I always fitted Town and Country tyres year round and it made it brilliant in the wet and snow, and I never noticed any detriment in the dry other than a little more tyre noise.

I definitely wouldn't have gone out in a 2WD on some of the days I went out on and even then, of the few cars that were out (presumably had winter tyres on), the RAV was a lot more grippy, faster and more stable - they were getting around but struggling gingerly. I was able almost to drive like normal albeit at much reduced speed.

Another thing though is 4WD driving knowledge. Last winter it snowed and one of the people I know has an Audi S5 Quattro and had to abandon it. He also told me how 4WD owners were abandoning their cars on a local steepish road because they were sliding all over. I had to laugh, I'd have absolutely not had any issue in the RAV in those conditions. The tales I heard were of 4WD drivers abandoning because they were sliding all over under braking! Someone should have obviously told them the correct way to descend in ice / snow - select the lowest gear you can that gives you a controlled maximum speed - usually 1st in cars without low ratio, then let the car descend under gravity and under no circumstances touch the brakes or accelerator. There are similar techniques to deal with setting off on the slippy stuff, although you usually don't need the latter in 4WD. The number of people you see who's idea to get grip is simply to keep the accelerator planted! That's the other issue, 4WD doesn't automatically make driving easy in bad weather. You have to know how to use it. Just as bad as people not knowing how to hill descend or set off, is the people who drive around slippery urban 30mph roads at 40-50mph thinking they're invincible because they 4WD. The reality is, if it does let go, you're no better off than in any other car and under braking or cornering on the slippery stuff, you're in the same position. What 4WD gives you is grip and stability. It's less likely to lose control than 2WD under power because the push is from 4 corners so even is you lose grip to a wheel, you still have 3 corners pushing, not all the power at one corner trying to rotate you. However, it's not a magic stick to road under any circumstances vehicle. You can crash in 4WD! Anyway, I diverge.

All I can say for sure, is that my short wheel base Rav4 soft roader, never got stuck even when practically no other vehicle could get out.

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Based on the figures and the equipment, I am really temped by the HR-V....it's not as fast as i'd like but if it's do-able when I get the lease list at the end of the year I might go for it....
I don't think Honda really have a clue for the UK. They're obviously infiltrated by people with green only vision at the top. Look at the CRZ, a sports car with no power, and no we're seeing the same mistakes repeated with other models once more.

I drove the new CRV last week, purely by accident, I'd arranged for my car to be picked up for service and the pick up driver had come out in a brand new CRV demonstrator as he thought it was a pure pick up, not pick up and courtesy car. Unsure of the exact spec, but I think it was top of the range - full leather, electrically adjustable seats, colour sat nav etc etc. Anyway, I was left the keys, or rather the fob as it's key-less even for the ignition, so I went for a drive.

Best description I can give is it's a very nice car inside although too large for my needs. However, to drive it was mundane. Totally unexciting, no feel and gutless engine.

About 5 years ago, I had a VW Tiguan the Bluemotion 130 bhp version as a loan car. Brakes aside (far too fierce and not progressive - be a nightmare in winter), it was brilliant. Lively, fun to drive and despite being only the 130bhp version, it was very very quick. Would have blown away the 1.8 TypeS Civic off the mark by a long way albeit it ran out of breath around 3,500 and red lined around 4,000 like most turbo diesels. The thing is, it was a brilliant drive and really really powerful low down, and that's what the new CRV lacks, feel and power.

It sounds unfortunately as if the HRV has gone down the same route.

Said, it before, but in my opinion, Honda haven't got a clue what the UK driver wants. They seem to be constantly changing models target audiences and they still seem to be persisting with a view that UK drivers want green over any other criteria, whereas most people I talk to, want a cheap to run car but not at the expense of feel or performance. Now the Car Tax has changed from next year for new models as well, it makes little sense to produce a vehicle with 100g/km CO2 and poor performance, when for 130g/km CO2 you could produce a car with both low emissions and cracking performance.

Anyway, overall my impression of the CRV, was it was well built, but that there were far better choices out there if you were looking for a 4WD.

Last edited by RA108; 30th August 2015 at 11:36.
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post #16 of 103 (permalink) Old 30th August 2015, 17:29
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Interesting comments and info'.

You did explain you fitted town and country tyres to your 4WD. I expect this combination will provide the best available solution to snow/winter roads which standard fit tyres can't match.(You did say you saw other 4WD 's sliding about!)

Based on my experiences I really would'nt write off the 2WD winter tyre combination. (But the proviso being I live in a suburban environment with just a few hills thrown in for good measure !)

Last edited by cb550; 30th August 2015 at 17:34. Reason: 4WD tyres
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post #17 of 103 (permalink) Old 31st August 2015, 00:10
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Interesting comments and info'.

You did explain you fitted town and country tyres to your 4WD. I expect this combination will provide the best available solution to snow/winter roads which standard fit tyres can't match.(You did say you saw other 4WD 's sliding about!)

Based on my experiences I really would'nt write off the 2WD winter tyre combination. (But the proviso being I live in a suburban environment with just a few hills thrown in for good measure !)
Whereas I don't question your experience, be aware that 2wd and 4wd are and always will be completely different beasts because 2wd cannot ever have the grip or stability of a 4wd whatever the tyres . There are 2 things you simply cannot get away from with 2wd:

1. The power is split between 2 wheels, so in a 140bhp car, you potentially have 70 bhp to each wheel. OK I know that is a bit simplistic as you don't set off under full throttle, but the point is with 4wd that same power is split between 4 wheels so with a 50:50 split, each wheel only has 1/2 as much power to put down. Hence why 4wd sets off better when its slippery. 1/2 the power and torque to each wheel whatever the throttle opening. No tyre can ever be a substitute for that.

2. 4wd has superior stability for the reasons I mentioned above ie a 2wd tries to spin around the remaining wheel with grip when a wheel loses traction, whereas with 4wd, the other 3 wheels pushing on each corner tend to keep the vehicle straight.

The reason I put Town and Country tyres on my Rav4 was simply to enhance it's performance in snow further as they have a greater tread depth and the tread self cleans better. Ordinary tyres have less tread depth and thus less grip but also snow tends to clog the tread pattern turning them into slicks.

So tyres will help but 2wd will never be 4wd

Last edited by RA108; 31st August 2015 at 00:20.
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post #18 of 103 (permalink) Old 31st August 2015, 09:18
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Whereas I don't question your experience, be aware that 2wd and 4wd are and always will be completely different beasts because 2wd cannot ever have the grip or stability of a 4wd whatever the tyres .
Apart from this bit, I fully agree with your description of 4WD !
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Not sure I agree that 4wd is the full answer, in situations where there is a loss of grip. Without a centre diff-lock you have a one-wheel drive car and with a centre diff-lock a 2-wheel drive car. You need a centre diff-lock and a locking rear diff to have 4x4 and hardly any cars have this. Tyres provide the grip, so tyre choice trumps gadgets
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post #20 of 103 (permalink) Old 1st September 2015, 10:32
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Apart from this bit, I fully agree with your description of 4WD !
I would still stand by that. Although you can improve a 2WD with winter tyres, you'll never get 4WD performance because 4WD is 4WD with the advantages I mentioned.

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Not sure I agree that 4wd is the full answer, in situations where there is a loss of grip. Without a centre diff-lock you have a one-wheel drive car and with a centre diff-lock a 2-wheel drive car. You need a centre diff-lock and a locking rear diff to have 4x4 and hardly any cars have this. Tyres provide the grip, so tyre choice trumps gadgets

????

I think you may be a little confused. A 4WD car is a 4WD all of the time unless it's one of those newer fancy part time cars where it's 2WD and becomes 4WD when a wheel slips.

All a diff lock does is make ALL the wheels turn at the same speed. It doesn't take 4WD away when it's not locked. The car is still 4WD but the front and back, and left and right wheels can turn at different speeds.

On a part time 4WD car, engaging the 4WD system simply locks the front to the back so the back wheels are driven also. I believe the same is probably true on an automated part time system apart from it's done by sensor. This is different to a diff lock where ALL the wheels become locked together.

Also, if a wheel loses traction, some of the power is redistributed to the other wheels temporarily. The moment grip is found, it's transferred back. I'm not sure where you get the idea that if a single wheel slips without the diff lock it becomes a one wheeled car. As I said above, all a diff lock does is force the wheels to all turn at the same speed. It doesn't add or remove 4WD and without it locked, a 4WD is still 4WD. Also if in 4WD, if a single wheel slips, the car doesn't become 2WD. 4WD cars typically have 3 diffs - 1 front and back between the wheels and 1 in the centre. That means that if for example a rear wheel slips, the power is transferred away from that wheel by the rear diff so the other 3 wheels gain more power and that wheel is reduced in power. The car doesn't transfer all the power form the rear to the front making it 2WD as you appear to be under the impression happens, nor does it become 1 wheel drive with only 1 corner pulling.

Also, speaking of diff locks, you don't want the diff locked because at anything over a few miles per hour, it actually makes the car dangerous to drive. The only function of a diff lock is to gain extra grip when ordinary 4WD is slipping so much when stationary that you're unable to get off the mark. It just gives that little extra push by giving the same traction to all of the wheels. As soon as you're off, the diff should be unlocked and most cars carry a 10mph limit for the diff being locked. A locked diff makes cornering dangerous.

As an aside, I had a diff lock on the 2 Rav4's I owned and never used it other than a quick test, as ordinary 4WD alone was sufficient even in deep snow and ice. I've been out in 2ft of snow over moorland roads as well as urban, and I once went down a road that was sheet ice, where there was a woman from the local farm at the top warning people not ot go down as even "4wds" were slipping all over. As I said in a previous post, it's all about knowing how to drive them. I put it in 1st, took my feet off and just steered, and went straight down the road as if it was a normal day, no slippage and no drama. In the meantime there were vehicles on verges and all over, and people stood at the side of the road with their jaws dropping wondering how a Rav4 soft roader could get down when they'd seen other proper 4x4's slipping all over and they couldn't even stand up on foot on the road surface!

Some info on 4WD systems here: https://sites.google.com/site/awdand4wd/

As you'll see, full time 4WD is the best for grip. (BTW the RAv's I had were 4x4 ie full time 4WD. The later models are now part time automated).

Last edited by RA108; 1st September 2015 at 10:50.
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