How to stop your rear brakes binding off the handbrake - reduce rear wheel brake dust - Civinfo
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 6th June 2009, 21:08 Thread Starter
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Exclamation How to stop your rear brakes binding off the handbrake - reduce rear wheel brake dust

I was checking out the wear on my rear pads today and found that they were binding on the brake disks from too much tension on the handbrake.

More brake dust on the rear wheels than the front is a common problem. I used to think it was due the VSA working on the rear wheels, but now think it is the handbrake cable tension set too tight (as suggested by others !)

It is easy to adjust the cable tension as follows:

A - Check if your brakes are binding on the handbrake:
1 Check your handbrake to see if it is under tension when it is fully off. If it is, it could be putting the rear brakes on slightly.

2 You can double check by jacking up the rear and spinning a wheel with the handbrake off. If it is binding , the handbrake adjustment is likely to be the problem.
B - Adjust the handbrake cable tension so there is a little bit of slack in it:
1 To adjust the handbrake cable tension there is a little adjuster nut accessible thru a hole in the centre console – see pictures.

You can adjust with a 10mm deep socket - £4.69 from Halfords if you don’t already have one
Halfords Professional Deep Socket 10mm 1/2" Drive from Halfords Price £4.69

If you don’t have, or cant get, a deep socket you could always lift up the centre console a bit and use a spanner. The centre console is held down with 4 screws .

2 The handbrake lever should have no tension when fully off. When you lift the lever one click it should have a little tension and start to engage the pads on the disk.


C - Recheck your brakes to see if they are binding or not. Also check your handbrake still works when fully on !




I am hoping this is going to stop the excessive brake dust on the rear wheels finally !! It should also save fuel , improve performance and reduce brake wear.
HB 1.jpg

HB 2.jpg

HB 3.jpg

10 mm Deep Socket.jpg
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Last edited by Munro; 7th June 2009 at 19:37.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 8th November 2009, 01:08
 
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did this work in the end?
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 8th November 2009, 09:45 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ep3davek20 View Post
did this work in the end?

Yes, it improved things. I get less rear wheel brake dust and no longer get the little black spots of brake pad material stuck to the alloys.


However the rear wheels still get a bit more brake dust than the fronts. I suspect this is down to:
1 Rear brake pad material is softer / different from the front. I have some EBC red stuff pads to fit which I hope will help here.

and / or

2 The VSA braking the rear wheels.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 19th November 2009, 21:31
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Thumbs up

I'm a new user who was browsing the site, when I came about this post, and I had to register. First of all to thank you, cause I've been wondering about those darn black spots on my back alloys, and the stealer just kept giving me bad excuses about why it got them, and on the back wheels only. So I am gonna give this fix a try soon!

However, have you had any luck removing the nasty black spots that you already had, from the back alloys? I've tried loads of cleaning products, and even some Slipol (don't know if its called that in the UK), which actually grinds very lightly into the alloy, and I still can't get it off.

Anyone had any luck removing it? Thanks in advance!
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 20th November 2009, 10:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKRC View Post
However, have you had any luck removing the nasty black spots that you already had, from the back alloys? I've tried loads of cleaning products, and even some Slipol (don't know if its called that in the UK), which actually grinds very lightly into the alloy, and I still can't get it off.

Anyone had any luck removing it? Thanks in advance!
I use 'clay' to remove any stubborn marks on my wheels. It works much better than trying to remove them using polish.

If you're new to 'claying' take a look here and here.

Once clean apply a wheel sealant such as Poorboys Wheel Seal or Rim Wax. It will make them easier to clean in the future.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 20th November 2009, 19:22 Thread Starter
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I have not tried clay on my wheels yet , I will have to give it a go if DR recommends it.

The technique I use, after cleaning most of the dirt off with a soft brush and water / car shampoo, is:
- An old credit card can be used to knock off big spots of brake pad material and tar spots.
- white spirit on a cloth, (like used to clean paint brushes)
and / or
- wonder wheels, used very sparingly as it is corrosive if it gets on anthing like wheel bearings or abs sensors etc. CarPlan Wonder Wheels 500ml from Halfords Price £7.99

Like DR, I now also poorboys wheel sealant. It does seem to keep the wheels cleaner for longer, and it is easier to clean them.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 24th November 2009, 09:22
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Thank you very much for the advice guys.

I have tried claying before, but not on the wheels, only on the paintjob. I wasn't too impressed I must admit, but might give it another go.

White spirits and a harsh wheel cleaner does seem like a good thing to try, as it seems everything else I have tried has been in vain, and something a bit more "desperate" is needed, so I'm gonna give that a shot when spring is nearing, and it's time to get the wheels back down from the attic.

I've yet to adjust the handbrake, but I just borrowed the needed tools, so I plan on giving it a whirl soon. Will report back how I fare. Thanks again guys, for all your help.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 28th November 2009, 13:55
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Okay, I had a chance to fiddle a bit with this today, and it seems it isn't the issue on my car. Even with the handbrake fully loosened, the rear wheels still grind a bit on the brakes, so it seems my problem is with the adjustment of the back brakes themselves.

Is this something I can correct myself, or do I need take it to a mechanic to get them adjusted properly?

To clarify, they grind enough for it make quite a lot of noise, and if I give the wheel a bit of momentum, it stops almost immediately when I let go, due to the brakes. This isn't normal, right?
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 28th November 2009, 17:26 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKRC View Post
Okay, I had a chance to fiddle a bit with this today, and it seems it isn't the issue on my car. Even with the handbrake fully loosened, the rear wheels still grind a bit on the brakes, so it seems my problem is with the adjustment of the back brakes themselves.

Is this something I can correct myself, or do I need take it to a mechanic to get them adjusted properly?

To clarify, they grind enough for it make quite a lot of noise, and if I give the wheel a bit of momentum, it stops almost immediately when I let go, due to the brakes. This isn't normal, right?

When the handbrake is off it shouldn't bind at all on the brakes. It may be another problem with your car like the pads sticking in the callipers a bit and needing cleaned out. Normally it would be unusual for a car as new as yours to do this unless:
- you do a high mileage or
- use the brakes a lot or
- the rear pads / disks are already nearly worn out for whatever reason (like the handbrake cable having been too tight for a while !)

It is a fairly easy job to change the pads and clean out the callipers and there is a good how to on here:
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/how/274...ads-how-2.html
If you are not sure, it may be best to leave it to a garage as it is not too expensive to have the job done.

Before I adjusted my handbrake cable it was taught even when it was in the fully off position. With the rear of the car jacked up I could still turn the rear wheel but it would stop turning as soon as I let go. I could hear the pads rubbing on the disk as well.

After I adjusted my handbrake cable tension , I could spin the rear wheel and it would keep turning with the momentum for a while after letting go. The pads on mine were less than half worn so plenty of pad left.

Last edited by Munro; 28th November 2009 at 17:44.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 30th November 2009, 07:45
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Thanks for the reply Munro.

Well, the car has done 38000 kilometers, don't know if that qualifies as high milage? What is the usual lifespan of brakepads?

I think I better get it checked out at the garage. Maybe it is because they are worn down, can I check that easily somehow? And if they are, are there any special kind I can get as replacements, that won't be as hard on the alloys, brakedust wise?
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 30th November 2009, 18:36 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKRC View Post
Thanks for the reply Munro.

Well, the car has done 38000 kilometers, don't know if that qualifies as high milage? What is the usual lifespan of brakepads?

I think I better get it checked out at the garage. Maybe it is because they are worn down, can I check that easily somehow? And if they are, are there any special kind I can get as replacements, that won't be as hard on the alloys, brakedust wise?
It is possible yours are worn out - it depends how hard you drive. I have heard on here of people who's brakes are worn out at a much lower mileage. Modern disks and pads wear down quicker than they used to due to enviro friendly materials.

It is easy to check the pad wear - just take a wheel off and look at the pads thru the gaps in the callipers. You have to check both sides of the disks and all wheels as pads can wear unevenly if they are sticking in the callipers. Also check the disks for scoring and if they have a lip on the outer edge from the disk wearing down. If unsure just use the garage as it is best to be safe, saves you getting dirty and it doesn't cost that much.

Standard Honda disks and pads can be improved on for better performance and reduced brake dust etc. Many people on here recommend EBC pads and I have some EBC red stuff pads to fit myself when my present pads wear out. You can get 15% off thru this link:

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/wheels-...-direct-8.html
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 7th December 2009, 20:39
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Got my dealer to take a look at my brakes today, and it seems that the rear pads as well as discs are very close to completely worn down!

I told them to fit it back together, and I have ordered new discs and pads on here, front and back. EBC red stuff and Tarox discs.

But is it normal for the rear pads and discs to be worn out BEFORE the front ones? The Honda dealer guy just gave me bad excuses about it, I can't seem to get a decent answer about this. Mine has ALWAYS had much more brake dust on the rear wheels, from day one. That isn't normal, is it?
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 7th December 2009, 21:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKRC View Post
Got my dealer to take a look at my brakes today, and it seems that the rear pads as well as discs are very close to completely worn down ! I told them to fit it back together, and I have ordered new discs and pads on here, front and back. EBC red stuff and Tarox discs. But is it normal for the rear pads and discs to be worn out BEFORE the front ones ? The Honda dealer guy just gave me bad excuses about it, I can't seem to get a decent answer about this. Mine has ALWAYS had much more brake dust on the rear wheels, from day one. That isn't normal, is it ?


Potential causes :-
  • Handbrake badly adjusted (too tight, so pads 'rubbing' all the time)
  • Rear calipers \ pistons 'sticking' (not releasing properly after use)
  • Disks not properly aligned (wheels not aligned - get "FRS" whatever)
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 9th December 2009, 20:44 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKRC View Post
But is it normal for the rear pads and discs to be worn out BEFORE the front ones? The Honda dealer guy just gave me bad excuses about it, I can't seem to get a decent answer about this. Mine has ALWAYS had much more brake dust on the rear wheels, from day one. That isn't normal, is it?
It is normal and there are a lot of discussion threads on this subject.

This post has a few good ideas which may also help fix the problem:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedpharmacist View Post
Hi

Had this problem: On a previous service Honda informed me that my rear pads on the car needed replacing (front were at 90% rear 10%!) - confusing when the front pads should wear out first (however now know pads a different in size). Thus I had excessive wear on rear pads and significantly more on one side. Then 20k miles later one rear disc was getting 'hot', rear pads @ 10% (front 66%!), Honda quoted me £300 for new pads and discs.

Solution: Do it myself and check pad fitting, pads & disc from EBC -15% civic forum disc. Followed instructions on this site to replace pads, replacing the discs was not much harder - but i was still getting the hot disc problem. I made a assumption at this point it was poorly fitting pads as they were difficult to get into place (inside ones especially). Purchased copper grease and high temperature Lithium grease, the first to grease the pad tabs and back of the pad so they fitted better (ie. can move away from the disc after braking) the second to grease the sliders (these are the moving pieces which the caliper bolts are attached, pull out from rubber protective cap to grease them). Before applying the grease i ground down the top of the pad guiding tabs on the botton and top so they fitted better - i only ground off a very small amount so they fitted tighly but easily (no hammer needed just a two finger push!). In addition released adjusted the hand brake as there was no 'slack' previously, (should be about one click of slack/less force needed until it pulls cable), as it is easy to do, just take out central consol (4 screws).

Result: Did job for £80.00 and 2.5 hours work (1.5 hours + 1hr greasing and grinding). Now no difference in temperature on rear discs and both disc seem cooler. Fuel efficiency increased by 10%, no problems of car rolling away either - bonus!

Leason: When Honda fit break pads they chuck them on as they should have sorted this out when i paid them £160 to do rear pads in first instance!
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 9th December 2009, 23:17
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I'm thinking of adjusting mine there seems to be an awful lot of slack in the lever when applying the handbrake.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 8th March 2010, 19:24
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You should have 4 clicks on the handbrake ideally.
MOT could fail if cable tension is not enough.



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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 25th May 2011, 20:52
 
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sorry to bump this rather old topic but i just tried to set the handbrake lever right and. In the service manual it says 8 to 9 clicks (196Nm or 20kg) pull and Relic says 4 clicks is optimal.
I had it at 4 or 5 clicks (i could hear the rear pads touching disks when the car is rolling) and now i've changed it to 8 clicks and the lever seems odly high and wibly (like there's even more movement to the sides? O_o) what's odd is that i can still hear the pads binding (even when moving the car by hand forward/backward i can hear them).

What do you guys have it set to ?

Also how easy should it be to move the piston in rear calipers? im starting to thing that they are not releasing propelly or the sliders? (are sliders marked with B on this pic)
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 25th May 2011, 22:34
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Originally Posted by seb1011 View Post
Also how easy should it be to move the piston in rear calipers? im starting to thing that they are not releasing propelly or the sliders? (are sliders marked with B on this pic)
The caliper will give a lot of resistance when squeezed onto the carrier with your hands as the pressure from the brake fluid is keeping it tight.

however it shouldnt be impossible to move with some force although this is not generally advised.

B on the pic is correct
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 26th May 2011, 00:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seb1011 View Post
sorry to bump this rather old topic but i just tried to set the handbrake lever right and. In the service manual it says 8 to 9 clicks (196Nm or 20kg) pull and Relic says 4 clicks is optimal.
I had it at 4 or 5 clicks (i could hear the rear pads touching disks when the car is rolling) and now i've changed it to 8 clicks and the lever seems odly high and wibly (like there's even more movement to the sides? O_o) what's odd is that i can still hear the pads binding (even when moving the car by hand forward/backward i can hear them).

What do you guys have it set to ?

Also how easy should it be to move the piston in rear calipers? im starting to thing that they are not releasing propelly or the sliders? (are sliders marked with B on this pic)
Most cars have 4-5 clicks.
Honda does not.
Due to VSA issues 7-8 clicks is the norm.

Personally you are better lift the rear wheels off the ground.
Spin the wheels by hand as someone tightens the cable with the handbrake off.
When the brakes suddenly start binding and its not possible to spin the wheels easily....back off a bit so you can spin them by hand.
They should rotate 3-4+ times with a good spin.



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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 24th July 2011, 22:18 Thread Starter
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My rear wheel brake dust problem is now fully cured.

I had KW coilovers fitted several months ago which have numerous benefits
- Better handling
- Better grip
- No under steer, also thanks to FRS
- Better / more comfortable ride, even thought the car is lowered @ 25mm
- NO Noticeable rear wheel brake dust, presumably because the car no longer bounces and skips over the bumps setting off the VSA / braking

I also made sure the EBC rear brake pads were installed in well cleaned callipers with the handbrake properly adjusted !
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