What is a modification for your insurance - Civinfo
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 9th July 2016, 11:02 Thread Starter
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What is a modification for your insurance

Well as you know there is a lot of is this a mod is this not so let me quote you what Aviva state on their website

"A modification is any alteration to a vehicle that was not part of the standard manufacturer’s specification, or that was not fitted as an option when the vehicle was manufactured. Modifications may be made to improve the vehicle's performance, appearance, comfort or safety, or to meet disabled driver requirements"

This basically says to me any genuine manufacturer part or accessory that was an option on the car is not classed as a modification as to be fair who was to know when this was fitted. A good example of this would be you buying a 5 year old FN2 with a GP pack that was fitted but how do you know when this was fitted or if this was fitted when the car was new.

Hope this helps some people when deciding what is a modification and what is not and please remember replacement parts like clutches, brake pads, tyres and many more that I could mention that are the same as the original oem parts are not classed as a modification however larger discs and callipers would be.

I guess for some this will still open a can of worms while for others this would help them decide easier as to be fair when you sometimes call the insurance company even what you are told by the person on the phone changes from call to call. I will say for me anything that is a genuine manufacturer option / part I have never classed as a modification or anything like a simple bulb swap for LED providing it is of a similar light output as I feel you have to apply some common sense to this. I will also add that if you bought a 6 year old car and was not a petrol head how would you know that the spoiler on the tailgate was not factory fitted or an option unless it said Ripspeed on the side
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Last edited by RickHondaR; 9th July 2016 at 11:13.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 9th July 2016, 11:12
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When I bought my CW FN2 he said it was a dead standard, mugen, supercharged championship white edition.



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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 9th July 2016, 11:15 Thread Starter
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Exactly but the only problem is when looking for the spec of car on the insurance you just can not find this listed as supercharged! Other than that lets be honest here all the Mugen parts can be speced to be fitted when new by a Honda dealer so are these classed as a modification?
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 9th July 2016, 11:25
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Hehe I may have been telling porkies slightly. But a useful post you have made anyway. I will say that I think some people panic too much about declaring things like a gear knob or wind deflectors, or other optional extras etc saying it's essentially void if you don't declare ANY mod. It's common sense really, I don't see any scenario where an insurer would refuse a pay out based on something so trivial not declared. Like all my supercharger and exhaust etc, mugen (Fugen ) are declared, but I can't remember if my wind deflectors are. But I'm not losing any sleep over it that they'd void my insurance in an accident if it had no influence on it. They care about major suspension, bodywork, engine etc. I daresay if you disputed their judgement, how could someone know if their springs are OEM? Mine are tein, and aside from being green, someone might have no idea they were aftermarket if the car was bought 2nd hand. Recently found out my Brakes and HKS hoses on too.
Declare as best as possible in your knowledge IMO and that's all you need to do.


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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 9th July 2016, 19:29
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I'm going through the same thoughts, mines due for renewal & last yr through compare the market I valued the car at full value with no modifications, (they stated modifications means anything different from the manufacturers original from factory) as my order with carbon packs was ordered from factory new I assumed this was ok but yesterday renewing through esures site they listed the part "no modifications" but stated that modifications includes any changes to the car including optional extras, I'll mention it to them Monday, I'm hoping it won't affect the new quote
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 11th July 2016, 14:32
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I have always been under the belief that it was any part that came from the manufacturers to add as an addition was okay. What I have always been asked when on the phone to insurers is "can you buy that directly from Honda" and as for GP kit you can so there is no need to be declared?


The one I was wondering about was the TD 1.2s, because they do come as standard on the TI so you must be able to buy them through Honda?
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 12th July 2016, 09:59
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Supercharged FN2 editions do exist. They just didn't make many and kept it hush hush




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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 12th July 2016, 10:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigal1996 View Post
I have always been under the belief that it was any part that came from the manufacturers to add as an addition was okay. What I have always been asked when on the phone to insurers is "can you buy that directly from Honda" and as for GP kit you can so there is no need to be declared?


The one I was wondering about was the TD 1.2s, because they do come as standard on the TI so you must be able to buy them through Honda?
Depends on the insurer, Admiral would cover the GP kit without declaring it as it was an optional extra from Honda but don't cover it's cost (all included in the value of the vehicle)
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 26th September 2016, 16:55
 
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I had a genuine Mercedes aeropack fitted (subtle front skirt and rear spoiler and skirt). These were very discreet but made a big overall improvement. I got told that this needs to be declared as this was not fitted at the factory when it was bought new despite being oem.


As you say, how would they know? I have no idea but I wouldn't want to chance it? Supposing that nice Ferrari GTO you accidentally rear ended and wrote off had your insurance sweating like the proverbial. Im sure original ad pictures, contact details from the previous owner, purchase specs from the dealers etc. would be pursued at all costs by the insurers.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 26th September 2016, 17:08 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Ice View Post
I had a genuine Mercedes aeropack fitted (subtle front skirt and rear spoiler and skirt). These were very discreet but made a big overall improvement. I got told that this needs to be declared as this was not fitted at the factory when it was bought new despite being oem.

With Aviva when you click on the link what is a modification basically anything factory fitted or oem part is not classed as modified and does not need to be declared
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 26th September 2016, 17:09 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickHondaR View Post
Well as you know there is a lot of is this a mod is this not so let me quote you what Aviva state on their website

"A modification is any alteration to a vehicle that was not part of the standard manufacturer’s specification, or that was not fitted as an option when the vehicle was manufactured. Modifications may be made to improve the vehicle's performance, appearance, comfort or safety, or to meet disabled driver requirements"

This basically says to me any genuine manufacturer part or accessory that was an option on the car is not classed as a modification

Here is the text from the website


Last edited by RickHondaR; 26th September 2016 at 17:50.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 26th September 2016, 17:24
 
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Yeah, I saw that but without helpful people on forums guiding you, it is a mindfield. How is one person to know from one insurer to the next. Imagine being hit by someone who in all honesty thought that they were covered because Aviva insured them last year but their new insurance company had a different take on mods.


Also the mods on my Merc were not fitted when the vehicle was manufactured.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 26th September 2016, 17:49 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Ice View Post


Also the mods on my Merc were not fitted when the vehicle was manufactured.

If a genuine Mercedes parts how would I know that? or how would I even know they were an extra? I might just think this is a limited edition model if it looks different to the others so to be fair I think people need to use some common sense. However if it is not a genuine Mercedes part lets be honest here and say the chances are you know it is a modification
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 26th September 2016, 17:52
 
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The bottom line is, the insurance company I was originally with told me it would void my insurance (Admiral), even if it was an oem part. How would they know? Again I have no idea, but would you take the chance as mentioned in post 9.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 26th September 2016, 18:06 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Ice View Post
The bottom line is, the insurance company I was originally with told me it would void my insurance (Admiral), even if it was an oem part. How would they know? Again I have no idea, but would you take the chance as mentioned in post 9.

Well yes because if I did not know it was a modified part how can they prove otherwise? I have not lied or deceived anyone have I? could they really void your insurance for say a GP pack because it was fitted on the car when I bought it and I thought it was factory fitted? to be honest I really doubt it but they will always advice otherwise because this boosts their profit margins. However if I have a receipt for that parts then I guess it is different.

Example the new CRV has optional rear spoiler, mud flaps, exhaust trim, mats inc boot and did I tell aviva? Hell no all factory fitted before I bought the car and to be fair from their statement this is correct.

I will add we also took the 5 year service plan and full 5 year manufacturers warranty and this is also extra so does this class as a modification to some companies? Like I said use common sense and to me any non consumable part that is screwed to the car that is not made by the manufacturer of the vehicle is an extra, everything else like LED lamps, brake pads, tyres, oil are all consumable parts and not a modification. Genuine Honda Alloys, door sills, rear spoiler on the CRZ are genuine parts and OEM extras so not modifications but say I changed the brake callipers to stop tech or fitted a supercharger or fox alloy wheels then yes this is a modification and I should declare this.

Last edited by RickHondaR; 26th September 2016 at 18:13.
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 26th September 2016, 18:38
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all i know insurance companies are scam artists, they will try their best to sell you everything on their policies, i had an accident a car swapped lanes and clipped my old estima van, i even had a dash cam to prove that the third party swapped lanes, but this is talking 6 years ago, they said lane swapping was 50/50 blame, i was with admiral, until this day they have not paid me out, they paid the third party as they were with admiral as well, i still have 15 years no claim bonus protected on ne policy and 5 years no claims bonus on a separate policy, and i got no points or claims except that one 6 years ago, which they still hold against me and they haven't even paid me out, so when i got my civic i told i got a quote from adrien flux and now my insurance is cheaper by 50% fully comp. my advice is if you have a small bump try to sort it out your self with the third party your self in writing and photos, as insurance companies use a rating system now, so if you report that your had a little bump but you don't want to claim and the third party dont want to claim, your insurance will still go up next year, i miss footman james they were great, but even their prices are mad now,
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 26th September 2016, 18:52
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Always been told that even if it was an optional extra as long as it's standard OEM then it's not a mod. I asked this about the GP kit I recently purchased and didn't need declaring.

They did however make it clear that optional extras aren't covered unless declared explicitly in the event that they swap like-for-like or pay out meaning they'd payout for an FN2 but not extra for the GP kit unless it was fitted from factory, I can prove it or I declare it as a paid mod.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 26th September 2016, 20:50
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When I called Axa to declare all my mods, they said they can't insure with the GP Kit fitted. Up rated pads/discs, tints, parking sensors, spacers were all fine but the second I mentioned the GP Kit, it was a big NO. I said it was fitted by Honda and an optional extra but after speaking with his manager, they declined since it's different from how it rolled out the factory.

White Ice's Ferrari example is why I would declare everything.

Thankfully, I'm now with Green Light who have been amazing with their quote and cover for everything

Last edited by lyenyo; 26th September 2016 at 20:54.
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 26th September 2016, 22:50
 
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I am also aware of incidents where an insurance company turned down a claim over a trivial non disclosure that later presented itself when a claim was made. This happened to a close family member who were very naive but ultimately declared what they thought they should in all innocence. They took it to the ombudsman and won the case. While this cannot be used to set precedents I also do know that what the insurance companies want to set as policy is not necessarily what they can set as policy. This is why I take umbrage with insurance companies taking the easy option by saying 'declare everything not standard' and charging for things that, in the event of a claim, they would no be able to dismiss had they not been declared anyway.

With my Mercedes I may have been able to challenge a claim dismissal had I not disclosed the aeropack but as I had fitted this myself it was not something I was prepared to chance.

I must add that involving the ombudsman caused a lot of stress and should not be relied on. They were initially told that they would be black listed in the insurance database and pay through the nose for future cover before the insurance company was ordered to pay out.

Last edited by White Ice; 27th September 2016 at 09:33.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 27th September 2016, 09:35
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Hi, I don't know if this helps but there are rules to protect customers from declined claims and rules to protect insurers from customers hiding details. It's called The Consumer Insurance (Disclosure and Representations) Act 2012.

Under the Act it is still the duty of consumers to take reasonable care not to make a misrepresentation to the insurer but there will no longer be a need for consumers to volunteer information that an insurer might regard as material. This increases the onus on providers to ask the right questions (and properly record the answers).

The result is that claims can no longer be thrown out just because the consumer didn't disclose a certain detail. The test is whether the omission was ‘deliberate or reckless’ or merely ‘careless’.

The insurer will be able to refuse a claim where a consumer deliberately or recklessly makes a misrepresentation. But the remedies for the less serious, 'careless', misrepresentation are based on what the insurer would have done if the consumer had complied with the duty to take reasonable care. Often there would just have been a premium adjustment and this will be reflected in the insurer's payout.

This helps consumers and should reduce the incidence of claims disputes.
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