Confused about modification declaration - Civinfo
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 3rd April 2012, 00:30 Thread Starter
 
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Confused about modification declaration

Right, here goes...

I passed my test in October 2005 (19) and paid 300 p/a as a named driver on my dad policy driving a 1.4 Seat Ibiza, S reg.
I had an accident in it after 9 months of passing my test, hit the back of a VW Bora at 40MPH, caved the front in, write off!.

After that I drove the original 1.3 Fiesta I bought that was still in the garage after deciding I wanted the Ibiza. Can't remember the insurance on that though. Then in Oct 2006 (20), I got my Civic EP2, 1.6. Insured it fully comp, my policy, car in my name, mum as named driver and because of the write off, the cheapest I could get was 2100 with 650 excess.

Over the years of driving the same car my insurance has gradually plummeted and when I hit 25 last May my excess followed along to being 150 total and my cheapest quotes are now just over 400.

I hit 26 next month and come October when I want to get a Type S I will have been driving 7 years and have 6 years NC. I've been getting quotes atm with the 6 years driving and 5 years NC on a Type S and they're the same as my EP2 just over 400, Got a quote on an FN2 and it was 524 and both of those will come down a bit further when I get quotes close enough to October to include 7 years driving and 6 years NC. All fine and dandy, never had an insurance hike and I managed to stay with Premium Choice (Equity RedStar) when they matched my best comparison quote last Oct .


Here's what I don't understand:
I resubmitted the Type S quotes on confused to include the mods (or rather OEM tweaks) that I planned on doing to the Type S when I get it, (I won't be doing any special mods because i'll be happy with how a Type S looks).

Colour-code the skirt kit
Sports grill
Type S grill badge and stickers
Type S spoiler

All standard Honda part and optional extras.
On confused I added 'Exterior decorative changes' and 'Spoiler - rear'

The quotes went from just over 400 to 800+?!!!. I noticed confused had removed the 'Spoiler - Optional Extra' tab in the mods list so could only go with the other spoiler option.
Highlighting those 'Modifications', does Confused and the insurers automatically think it's aftermarket or is that what they want to charge for them OEM or no?




DOUBLED!!! For some paint and plastic.......Unbelievable!!!

Last edited by Cody; 3rd April 2012 at 00:32.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 3rd April 2012, 08:06
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When I spoke to Admiral regarding modifications they didn't care if it was an optional extra on the car from new, they still classed it as a modification.

What I want to know is, how do they know the original spec the car came as new? I mean, my girlfriend has a 3rd hand type-s which has body coloured bumpers yet it is a 2006 model. I'm not sure if the 2006 model even had an option for body coloured bumpers? Regardless, when she bought the car it had body coloured bumpers but this may well have been a 'modification' at some point...but how is she to know?

What i'm saying is....even if you don't declare the mods you have listed, if you had an accident, would the insurance company be able to prove that you added these modifications and not the previous owner?
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 3rd April 2012, 09:34
 
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Have you tried Performance direct.. When i was looking at modding my Golf they gave me an option too put the price a little higher but that will cover any modifcation i do and they also can give you a BHP limit too without changing the price.

Hope that makes senes!

Dan
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 3rd April 2012, 09:44
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There are many mods i believe should be declared, however the ones you plan on doing aren't on my list IMO of course, others will feel otherwise no doubt
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 3rd April 2012, 19:53 Thread Starter
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Exactly, how do they know? and what difference does it bleeding make?!.

Colour coded skirts kit:
As far as I understand, the pre-painted kit came as standard on 2009 models but I think it was late 2009 because ive seen some 09 plates with grey trims on Honda's site. Their spec list for the cars regardless of age or body colouring state *Body coloured bumpers*, so how are insurers to know that the skirts aren't coloured as standard. I'm not saying i'm trying to scam insurers or anything, i'm just saying that if they try and charge extra just because of some colour matching, that's one of the most rip-off extortions i've ever known with cars.

Sport's grill:
In a way this is a black patch with whether it should be classed as a 'Modification' or not. One one hand, it does change the appearance of the front end dramatically and it is a completely different style and design from the Perspex one so 'sort of' a modification from standard. BUT.... It's official Honda and just because somebody can't afford an extra 2k to have it already on from factory, why should they be punished for changing it later?. Again, How do they know?, when the insurers check the standard spec of the car, does it describe it as 'Sports grill, black mesh, hollow badge, chrome strip'........ I don't think so!

Spoiler:
Same as above, it was an optional extra which by the looks of it, not many new purchase customers wanted it . So just because I want it, why do I get punished for it?

Stickers and grill badge:
Quite simply put, there's one on the back!!!
It's a badge!!!, if adding a grill badge also added 10HP then fine but it bloody doesn't!



So the question is. Who has and hasn't declared these alterations and if they have, what have their insurers done about it?

Tw1stid - That's a complete farce mate, to charge you for OEM things is a joke buddy, simply put. I just don't get insurers and their ideas. Good point though.... How do they know?, you could say it was like that when I bought it. Unless they check with Honda or look at previous owners insurance on it, which then they would say the previous insurer committed fraud.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 4th April 2012, 08:13
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To be fair, Admiral wanted an extra 30 a year for the sports grille which isn't world changing but I agree it's a farce. They will justify it by saying it makes your car more desirable to a thief...which I guess is potentially true.

I still don't see how they would know who had carried out the modifications although I guess someone who knows more about insurance could say whether:

a) You are obliged to check your car against the manufacturing spec and declare any mods that are on it even if you didn't carry them out (if this is the case I suspect many people are driving around with cars which are technically not insured!)

or b) You are obliged to only declare modifications made since the point of purchase (although again, I don't see how they would know unless it was a brand new car).
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 4th April 2012, 09:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tw1stid View Post
To be fair, Admiral wanted an extra 30 a year for the sports grille which isn't world changing but I agree it's a farce. They will justify it by saying it makes your car more desirable to a thief...which I guess is potentially true.

I still don't see how they would know who had carried out the modifications although I guess someone who knows more about insurance could say whether:

a) You are obliged to check your car against the manufacturing spec and declare any mods that are on it even if you didn't carry them out (if this is the case I suspect many people are driving around with cars which are technically not insured!)

or b) You are obliged to only declare modifications made since the point of purchase (although again, I don't see how they would know unless it was a brand new car).
So is a facelift model the same price to insure as the pre face-lift model.
If the price is the same....they have no reason to charge for the face lift extras.



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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 14:44
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This seems way OTT to me. Increased premiums for an OEM optional sticker??

If you put an Ipswich Town FC sticker in your car and park it in the middle of Norwich do you declare that? Cos your more likely to need a claim
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 14:54
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Simple answer don't declare them. The worst that will happen is if you behave a bump or it's stolen you won't get paid out for them.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 15:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foulsmell View Post
Simple answer don't declare them. The worst that will happen is if you behave a bump or it's stolen you won't get paid out for them.
I think that's the most likely thing to happen - the worst is that they invalidate your insurance!
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 15:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foulsmell View Post
Simple answer don't declare them. The worst that will happen is if you behave a bump or it's stolen you won't get paid out for them.
Worst advice ever

If the policy gets voided due to "non disclosures" of a "material fact" then you won't get paid a penny, not just for the modified bits, but the whole car!!
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 15:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foulsmell View Post
Simple answer don't declare them. The worst that will happen is if you behave a bump or it's stolen you won't get paid out for them.
TBH, that's what i would do in the situation...

Due to the fact i know how the motor & insurance (engineer side (for vehicle claim inspections)) works, the guy inspecting the vehicle wouldn't know/care for OEM spec pieces, if he turned up and you had the entire mugen kit hanging off then he would clearly be aware they aren't OEM bits on a CTS

However colour coding, a CTS spoiler & CTS grille are OEM parts that most civics have and wouldn't raise suspision
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 15:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty182 View Post
TBH, that's what i would do in the situation...

Due to the fact i know how the motor & insurance (engineer side (for vehicle claim inspections)) works, the guy inspecting the vehicle wouldn't know/care for OEM spec pieces, if he turned up and you had the entire mugen kit hanging off then he would clearly be aware they aren't OEM bits on a CTS

However colour coding, a CTS spoiler & CTS grille are OEM parts that most civics have and wouldn't raise suspision
This is my experience also.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 15:54
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Originally Posted by shaunwistow View Post
Worst advice ever

If the policy gets voided due to "non disclosures" of a "material fact" then you won't get paid a penny, not just for the modified bits, but the whole car!!
Have you disclosed or would you disclose your Type S decal?
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 15:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foulsmell View Post
Have you disclosed or would you disclose your Type S decal?
Yes i have to the fleet manager, it's a company car

It's not all about if it makes the car go faster, there is also the added "theft appeal"

I have worked in the insurance game for 25 years both in a claims capacity in a brokers, for an insurance company & now loss adjusting. I have not known an insurer void/cancel a policy or decline due to a sticker alone.

However, I have known them decline claims for spoliers etc.

So to tell someone not to disclose any changes, IMO is very poor advice.

Last edited by shaunwistow; 11th April 2012 at 16:06.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 16:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty182 View Post
TBH, that's what i would do in the situation...

Due to the fact i know how the motor & insurance (engineer side (for vehicle claim inspections)) works, the guy inspecting the vehicle wouldn't know/care for OEM spec pieces, if he turned up and you had the entire mugen kit hanging off then he would clearly be aware they aren't OEM bits on a CTS

However colour coding, a CTS spoiler & CTS grille are OEM parts that most civics have and wouldn't raise suspision
Exactly, common sense really, i've just put 'gers' Type R decals on the side of mine and hadn't even thought about insurance, as far as i'm concerned my car is completely standard. I bet the civinfo sticker would raise more suspicion, anyone declare them??
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 16:58
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And it could mean you being turned down for insurance which you would have to declare ie you had a policy made void, I agree the points do not makes sense but the advice is a bit suspect, it is almost the same as saying don't insure, the worst you get is fined and some points if you get caught.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 17:09
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to be fair , i had an accident in an un declared modded car resulting in my car write off. they did take pictues of it . i think when its not your fault . ie. no expenses against your insurance company they tend not to be that bothered.

all they did was paid me out but did not re imburse for the mods.

like wise with some insruance companies , some will insure y ou but in the event of an accident they will not reimburse the mods back - they just allow you to drive aroud with mods for a premium prospective! my friend has a 3 tone coloured car (different from original) delcared on her insurance . in the event of vandalism/accident they will not re spray her car - they just give her the privilege to drive around in it.

i think when its your fault , only then will they scrutinise your driving licence for un declared points / modifications to car to wriggle out of it. there has been some cases , of some insurers going on car enthusiast website to check your mods which is why some people dont list mods/location in their signature. so having a civinfo.com sticker is going to give something away - ok people are going to startr sticking focusST.com stickers on civics now lol

i am sure a claims handler will confirm this. however my friend who had a toyota aveniss when he hit someone . they replaced his standard oem bumper with a sports one upgrade for free because they did not sell the oem bumper or it was more expensive for the standard one LOL.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 11th April 2012, 17:44
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No one is saying 'dont get insurance' or 'dont declare any mods'

Just use your noggin about it, replacing OEM parts IMO isn't enough or a modification to justify them, however some people will recommend to declare everything and anything

It's each to there own really
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 20th May 2012, 00:40
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I think at some point the declaration of 'modifications' can get slightly tedious. I think i might declare the Non-Honda Fuchs Engine Oil which improves the car or the use of better quality tyres because they are not original factory replacements and also increase performance. Then i suppose there is the issue of whether you actually knew a car was modified. I doubt an FRS would be noticed at all by someone buying a CTR but that is quite an extensive modification. Knowing insurance companies though it's probably not worth leaving things undisclosed however small they may seem to avoid the hassle should the worse happen if not anything else.
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