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  Topic Review (Newest First)
13th August 2019 20:09
veehexx sounds like a fan would be far easier!
Girodisc goodies ordered; titanium shims and 2peice discs. hopefully see 'em in the next fortnight.

decided i'll run the PBS's again. Dixcels going back on the rear without ducts shortly before next trackday to see what temps i run with the dust shield removed. I dont have much data to work with but i do know I'm currently seeing 800c+ front, and 400c+ on rear since i've cooked both classes of pads.
13th August 2019 16:06
Haltamer Hmm, Quite possibly.
Just ordered a nice book on modifying road car aero, It's a fun topic!

Based on this diagram, and the position of the NACA ducts on this Audi I'd hope it may work, but I'm not sure what the pressures would look like in the arch.




It may just be a case of getting the vents far enough to the back to get them into the low speed flow (Probably to the aft of the undertray? Which would bring it into exhaust territory!)
13th August 2019 14:24
SilverCider
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haltamer View Post
Not sure if you've already tried this one, but given the flat underbody tray, would it be possible to make a cut out in the undertray with a NACA style duct (best for keeping ground clearance sorted, could go for a more aggressive scoop though?) then run an air duct back to the trailing beam and onto the rear discs?

Not been under the car for a while, so not 100% sure of the practicality or how much space is above the undertray, only issue I could forsee is routing the duct for the right brake around the exhaust.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
The problem with trying take air from under the car is that the flow there is low pressure. You risk having a reverse flow scenario as the air pressure in the wheel cavity is likely to be much higher. The reason a front scoop to the front brakes works is because there is a region of high pressure directly above the front splitter that can drive against it.
12th August 2019 20:20
veehexx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haltamer View Post
Not sure if you've already tried this one, but given the flat underbody tray, would it be possible to make a cut out in the undertray with a NACA style duct (best for keeping ground clearance sorted, could go for a more aggressive scoop though?) then run an air duct back to the trailing beam and onto the rear discs?

Not been under the car for a while, so not 100% sure of the practicality or how much space is above the undertray, only issue I could forsee is routing the duct for the right brake around the exhaust.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
i did think about a naca duct. looks to be plenty of room at the trailing edge of the mid-panel just before the beam axle. problem is there isnt much room to get even 63mm duct to the disk (failed previous attempts).
i'll take yet another look when i get my girodiscs. Currently have my cup2 tyres on the back and ps4s's on the front so will need to swap those back around before my next trackday. maybe leave duct work till after next trackday to see what temps are like with dust sheild removed.
12th August 2019 17:56
Haltamer Not sure if you've already tried this one, but given the flat underbody tray, would it be possible to make a cut out in the undertray with a NACA style duct (best for keeping ground clearance sorted, could go for a more aggressive scoop though?) then run an air duct back to the trailing beam and onto the rear discs?

Not been under the car for a while, so not 100% sure of the practicality or how much space is above the undertray, only issue I could forsee is routing the duct for the right brake around the exhaust.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
12th August 2019 15:32
veehexx that design has already crossed my mind. but i dont have the resources or skill to DIY it really.



I might of found a way to get cooling in to the rear.
forced air. plenty of marine blige pumps around and i think i can get some small bore ducting in which would be a throughput issue for a passive scoop duct but not for a fan. plenty of physical room for a fan unit under the back end somewhere. over/under the rear axle & avoid exhaust will be the main issue.


fronts; order is in the pipeline for girodiscs and their titanium shims for pads. Discs should further improve cooling and shims should stop the dust seals getting cooked. PBS pads not totally dead yet. If they die once the discs are fitted, then i'm going to carbotech XP12 which have 1010c max temp on them.
12th August 2019 11:30
jakabi
Quote:
Originally Posted by veehexx View Post
Already thought of. biggest problem is mounting that 2nd caliper. Certainly not a DIY job for me.


Plus side, i have had an idea for disabling HBA that's getting in the way a lot... pull the power from the motor unit at the back of the car.
Guessing it would require something like this ...

Carbon 6 - Rear Parking Brake Caliper Bracket: Version 2.0

or for the ultimate setup (scroll to the bottom) ...

https://forum.rs246.com/viewtopic.php?t=122456

more custom brackets ...
https://forum.rs246.com/viewtopic.ph...83798&start=15

Has anyone put 6 pots on an FK2? Would they fit with/without a bracket?
10th August 2019 20:14
veehexx ok, brake update time.


i'm in a track specific group on FB and they've confirmed what i really didnt want confirmed... the brakes i have arent good enough for the job.


rears first since thats my most recent post. not as bad as i thought. brand new they come in at 14mm thick inc backplate. currently measure around 10mm so i've had 4mm wear. i've another 4mm to go till it's metal on metal. pulled out the Dixcel Z's and i've no issues with the friction surface. so, Rear brakes not as bad as i thought.


Fronts however... somewhat similar issue to pmu hc800's i've ran in the past... i'm cooking 'em. note the darker areas where the pad surface has picked up and gone missing.








these are brand new in April, been used on road and 1x wet Donington with about 15min max/session.


the FB group confirmed my suspicion on the above pad wear - i've underspecced the brakes and this is on top of the cooling mods i've done before fitting the PBS's with removal of dust sheild and improved brake cooling air redirectors.

not sure if to run the DBA & PBS combo into the ground/till i cook 'em, cut losses and get rid, or upgrade now to something like carbotech xp12 (120-1010c temp range) and most likely the 2 peice girodiscs.
5th August 2019 12:01
veehexx Already thought of. biggest problem is mounting that 2nd caliper. Certainly not a DIY job for me.


Plus side, i have had an idea for disabling HBA that's getting in the way a lot... pull the power from the motor unit at the back of the car.
5th August 2019 09:18
jakabi I was looking at the bro-in-laws DB9 the other day and that has 4 pot Brembos and a separate small handbrake caliper on the back. Not saying it can be done but that would be an interesting setup on the FK2
5th August 2019 09:09
veehexx thats where i keep getting stuck. h/brake.
BMW no doubt have something for the FK2 with 5x120 PCD. no doubt caliper will need a custom mounting option. hydraulic is easy as you could just get a custom one made up.
the h/brake... not so easy. depending on caliper, you'll need a different end and no doubt different length.
being my only car, it's not really a weekend job. brake bias valves are an option but that then means more messing with the pipe work.



only thing i've seen is race cars with APRacing calipers. nothing street legal.


I've contacted Carbone Lorraine. they'll water-cut custom pads if they dont have anything direct fit for donor pad + 25 for the watercutting. I'm interested in their 6E compound; 'E' for endurance.
2 year life (around 18k miles inc track) i don't think is unreasonable. maybe i've just underestimated wear on track.


another thing i considered over the weekend is a bilge fan. certainly no room for ducting but might just work if there's room. thinking about mounting it around the 2oclock position as you look at the disc. not sure if they'll be room but would certainly get some airflow around the rears to help keep 'em cool and extend life. I already know ns400 (400c) pads overheat so clearly room for cooling improvements.


I also got looking at titanium shims. fronts are available for 70 iirc (not sure if 0.5 or 1mm) from evo shops. 70 cheaper than 90-100 for new dust seals.
4th August 2019 11:36
Haltamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by veehexx View Post
fk2 rear pads are same as another 9G civic (tourer?) and the 120ps rear pads Mini. baffling why those chose to use that size on this power/use class.
They're identical to the ones on my 100HP 1.4, barring the extra layer of red paint on the FK2 ones.

The big issue with trying to find an upgrade for the rear is the lack of a real aftermarket offering, and especially considering balance. (And having a handbrake, whilst we're at it.)
4th August 2019 11:16
veehexx nope, boot empty 99% of the time. either got the dog or weekly shopping in there.
fk2 rear pads are same as another 9G civic (tourer?) and the 120ps rear pads Mini. baffling why those chose to use that size on this power/use class.



rear brakes just undersized for the typeR and being solid discs i think it's all about heat. looking at the grooved rear discs from Dream, another set of dixcelZ and will be removing dust shield.



still very interested in a conversion. 200/pads/yr just for rear (with very few options available; hc800, dixcelZ and ebc yellow in the 800c class) is a bit expensive.



if i were going for a daily&weekend car, i wouldnt of gone the typeR. entire point was 1 car for both, and with only a few trackdays a year it's hard to justify dedicated track car.
hard to come to terms with selling up and going something like an Lexus IS and caterham/atom/xbow. not sure any of those are the type of car you can leave ungaraged.


I'm going back to my original instinct on rear brakes when i ran the NS400 pads; convert. gotta be something out there in 5x120 PCD vented discs that'll fit.
3rd August 2019 19:19
Haltamer Seems odd you're still managing to get through them that quickly, though I imagine the tracks days help. [emoji16]

Are you usually driving with big loads in the boot? Wondering if the break force distribution is particularly rear weighted for you.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
3rd August 2019 18:48
jakabi Sounds like a no win situation. Would probably make sense to run 2 sets of pads (i.e OEM for road), but then you have the hassle of swapping them back and forth. Having said won't it be a bit safer doing that as OEM pads are going to bite better from cold on normal road use.

You could get another car as a daily and keep that for weekends and track use

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
3rd August 2019 17:54
veehexx feeling frustrated with the car again.
noticed my rear pads are low again. driver side outter is less than the backing plate thickness. not looked at the inner set yet but can bet they'll be lower.
took a look at when i ordered the dixcelZ's; June18... 200, 13months, 8k road (VSA off when out for a drive) and maybe 4 trackdays (always VSA off).
i'm not even on track as much as some either.
1st August 2019 22:30
jakabi Just booked OP on 31st October, 129 for the day, 40 for a couple of lessons, 30 for a garage given its in October

Want to get something booked this month too, probably OP as its only an hour away. All the others are a 4-5 hour round trip for me ... need to add a trailer to my shopping list!

Got the sandwich plate and gauge ordered. Went for a Depo 4 in 1 which has oil pressure, oil temp, voltage and water temp. The lighting should hopefully match the dash as I want to put it where the circular air vent is.
23rd July 2019 18:57
veehexx harness has been a long term consideration on mine. changing the seat position a few clicks more upright and using the factory 3point has made it hard to actually place and order. plus i'd want one with ASM.


FK2 has oil temp & pressure sensor. Pressure has a smoothing delay of a few seconds. Biggest issue i have with them is they doesn't alert and you have to make a concious effort to switch the iMID display and look. I dont think they're interrogatable via the honda ecu. I ended up going with the Stack ProControl oil temp&pressure gauges as they have configurable warnings and being directly on top of dash, always visible and attract your eye when they go into warn state. even has relay&datalogging outputs.
23rd July 2019 12:40
jakabi Thanks, just picked up a TRS 3" harness, hopefully stop moving around in the standard seats too much.

Also just found that the FN2 doesnt have oil temperature ... assumed I'd be able to pick it up from the ECU with the FlashPro. Need a sandwich plate by the looks of things and a separate gauge. Will add it to my list for a later date. Do the FK2's have readable oil temp?
23rd July 2019 12:12
veehexx wish we had BBK at not too silly prices, but hey ho..
not too familiar with the FN2, but doubt you'll see any issues with the work you've done
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