1.7CTDi going into limp mode. - Civinfo
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 10th April 2014, 17:01 Thread Starter
 
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1.7CTDi going into limp mode.

Hello,

I have a 2004 Honda Civic 1.7 CTDi. In the past I have had a few problems with it going into limp mode when accelerating to 50-60 mph when doing high revs. This is a problem I am yet to fully resolve but still havn't bought a new Boost Pressure Sensor. See: 1.7CTDi going into limp mode - Honda Civic Forum

After an incident last week where it went into limp mode before and after putting fuel into the car, I assumed that it might just be a case of pulling some dodgy fuel through when it was low. However this is definitely not the case.

When I start the car, after after 20 or 30 seconds idling the car will go into limp mode and will limit itself to about 3000rpm. After a few tests at driving it I noticed that it would go into limp mode whilst driving normally as well (20-30mph).

I took it to a mechanic over the weekend which is where my car has been since, and after speaking with him it would seem to be a further development to the problem I began to encounter some 18 months ago as detailed in the linked thread.

So it is a recurrence of the old 'Boost Pressure' issue. The turbo has been cleaned out and a new vacuum valve has been put on it. None of which has fixed the problem.

The mechanic has taken it to Honda, and they have come back saying what I read so often on this forum. "New turbo, 1200. But that might not fix the problem".

At the moment from what I have just been told, what it happened that whilst idling the car checks the turbo vanes, notices a problem and then just swaps over to limp mode. Although I will speak to him further tonight so I can get a more details as to the error codes and a few other things if it come to me having to sell the car.

So right at this moment in time I am absolutely not sure on what to do, I've been told that it obviously isn't worth spending that amount of money repairing, and that I'm best to try to sell it as spares or repairs on ebay.

I could really use some help on this issue, even some advice would be massively helpful at this moment in time. I have already posted this on a separate Honda forum and am yet to receive any replies.


Note: I also know that this is a very common issue which has faced many owners of the 1.7CTDi Civic and that it is difficult to get a correct diagnosis being that Honda dealers are always eager to just try ripping out the turbo first and then work their way from there. But I am also aware that since this issue has faced many owners, they will probably have a better understanding of the little things which could also cause this problem.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 10th April 2014, 19:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraith-of-vern View Post
Hello,

I have a 2004 Honda Civic 1.7 CTDi. In the past I have had a few problems with it going into limp mode when accelerating to 50-60 mph when doing high revs. This is a problem I am yet to fully resolve but still havn't bought a new Boost Pressure Sensor. See: 1.7CTDi going into limp mode - Honda Civic Forum

After an incident last week where it went into limp mode before and after putting fuel into the car, I assumed that it might just be a case of pulling some dodgy fuel through when it was low. However this is definitely not the case.

When I start the car, after after 20 or 30 seconds idling the car will go into limp mode and will limit itself to about 3000rpm. After a few tests at driving it I noticed that it would go into limp mode whilst driving normally as well (20-30mph).

I took it to a mechanic over the weekend which is where my car has been since, and after speaking with him it would seem to be a further development to the problem I began to encounter some 18 months ago as detailed in the linked thread.

So it is a recurrence of the old 'Boost Pressure' issue. The turbo has been cleaned out and a new vacuum valve has been put on it. None of which has fixed the problem.

The mechanic has taken it to Honda, and they have come back saying what I read so often on this forum. "New turbo, 1200. But that might not fix the problem".

At the moment from what I have just been told, what it happened that whilst idling the car checks the turbo vanes, notices a problem and then just swaps over to limp mode. Although I will speak to him further tonight so I can get a more details as to the error codes and a few other things if it come to me having to sell the car.

So right at this moment in time I am absolutely not sure on what to do, I've been told that it obviously isn't worth spending that amount of money repairing, and that I'm best to try to sell it as spares or repairs on ebay.

I could really use some help on this issue, even some advice would be massively helpful at this moment in time. I have already posted this on a separate Honda forum and am yet to receive any replies.


Note: I also know that this is a very common issue which has faced many owners of the 1.7CTDi Civic and that it is difficult to get a correct diagnosis being that Honda dealers are always eager to just try ripping out the turbo first and then work their way from there. But I am also aware that since this issue has faced many owners, they will probably have a better understanding of the little things which could also cause this problem.
you need to start with getting fault codes,, because its gone in to limp mode the ecu will register faults,,, what mileage has it done has it got full history ie serviced right,,, turbo wise i'm pretty sure the turbo on that model is a garret type with a vacuum waste gate which so unless the car is throwing out loads of blue smoke i would be surprised if there is too much wrong with it,,, i believe thats a izuzu based motor on the 1,7cdti. does car smoke either black or blue just before limp mode..
i would disconnect the maff and start it and see if that clears limp mode.. if no change that would rule out the maff... the turbo has small pipes feeding the bellows for waste gate,, check that these are all clear,, there could very well be a vacuum valves along that feed that controls air feed pressure for wastegate.. but you really do need the fault codes if none of this works out .Blueprint MAP Sensor Honda CIVIC VI Coupe 1.7 i [2001-2005] | eBay clean map sensor with switch cleaner check wiring that goes to it... this is all a shot in the dark and you really do need to get fault codes,, joint AA they have a reader...
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 10th April 2014, 20:49 Thread Starter
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So I just picked the car up and nothing has changed with it really. It seems to just be throwing up the same problem as it has for the past 18 months, and that is P0238 - "boost sensor high voltage", or "overboosting" as it seems to be commonly called.

The Honda mechanic said that the first step really is to swap the turbo for the modified one which was used in the replacement scheme, which has better clearance on the vanes. From what I was then told the process in which the engine throws itself into limp mode, is that when idling the engine will perform a self diagnostic on the turbo vanes, and this is when it throws an error and puts it into limp mode.

He has cleaned the vanes out and changed the EGR valve, which he thought might have been the issue. But the general advice was to get rid of it to save sinking more money into it, considering that it seems to be the same problem that has just got continually worse and given that its done 110,000 miles, it is likely that it is that the turbo has gone.

He did also try the steps that you mentioned, but at no point does it put out any blue smoke.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 11th April 2014, 16:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraith-of-vern View Post
So I just picked the car up and nothing has changed with it really. It seems to just be throwing up the same problem as it has for the past 18 months, and that is P0238 - "boost sensor high voltage", or "overboosting" as it seems to be commonly called.

The Honda mechanic said that the first step really is to swap the turbo for the modified one which was used in the replacement scheme, which has better clearance on the vanes. From what I was then told the process in which the engine throws itself into limp mode, is that when idling the engine will perform a self diagnostic on the turbo vanes, and this is when it throws an error and puts it into limp mode.

He has cleaned the vanes out and changed the EGR valve, which he thought might have been the issue. But the general advice was to get rid of it to save sinking more money into it, considering that it seems to be the same problem that has just got continually worse and given that its done 110,000 miles, it is likely that it is that the turbo has gone.

He did also try the steps that you mentioned, but at no point does it put out any blue smoke.
looking at the turbo it dont look like a variable vane type turbo to me.. it looks like a standard waste gate turbo so pressure is controlled by vacum feed to to the wastegate actuator the map sensor measure's the amount of boost pressure and via the ecu on a 5v frame controls when the wastgate open and closes... if either the map sensor or the vacuum valve.... or if the actuator bellows is faulty then you would get the faults you have... i personally would check the vacum feed pipes for splits etc first,, then put a air line blower on the actuator to confirm there is no holes in the bellows, and it moves backwards and forwards to open and close wastegate... the wastegate can be adjusted by shortening will give more boost pressure and by lengthening will give less boost. a turbo is just a compressor so if no oil burning then the compressor side sounds fine,, the actuator normally comes complete with turbo unit.... but you can just buy these actuators for around 25-50 and just replace that part and not the complete turbo at 500 or so... but garages will want to sell you a turbo.... start with working out if actuator is faulty... them check pipes.. then the resistance off the mapp sensor while blowing it with a airline on and off,,,,
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 11th April 2014, 19:01 Thread Starter
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I double checked the documentation and its a Garrett GT1749V which is a variable vane turbocharger which is used in the Civic 1.7CTDi. Either this turbo is a variant of it.

Now I must confess, I don't know a great deal when it comes to the actual mechanics of cars, so I'll just type this as I was told yesterday.

I was told that the engine exhaust has two valves, one for the EGR and one for the turbo. I am guessing that this is what you are referring to as the wastegate actuator? The one for the turbo was fine, but the EGR valve was completely non-functional, this was then replaced for a working one, thinking that this could have been the issue.

I'm going to guess that the vacuum pipes were checked for any splits or holes, because this seems to be the first thing to check from what I've read.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 12th April 2014, 15:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraith-of-vern View Post
I double checked the documentation and its a Garrett GT1749V which is a variable vane turbocharger which is used in the Civic 1.7CTDi. Either this turbo is a variant of it.

Now I must confess, I don't know a great deal when it comes to the actual mechanics of cars, so I'll just type this as I was told yesterday.

I was told that the engine exhaust has two valves, one for the EGR and one for the turbo. I am guessing that this is what you are referring to as the wastegate actuator? The one for the turbo was fine, but the EGR valve was completely non-functional, this was then replaced for a working one, thinking that this could have been the issue.

I'm going to guess that the vacuum pipes were checked for any splits or holes, because this seems to be the first thing to check from what I've read.
waste gate actuator is on the turbo it open and closes the wastgate on the turbo... so get a friend to start car while you watch the turbo,, you will see a steel rod coming from the actuator to a linkage on the turbo,,, right is its a variable vane turbo when you start car this metal rod will move,,, if it dont move then you have a issue with the vacuum supply to it,,,, if it moves and you still have the fault then chances are is the vain's on the turbo its self....... i've had cars in work with your description of the problems and it turned out to be the small rubber pipe had a split on the underside of it i could not see it but as car drove over bumps it would move around and let air in and out of pipe hence one minute it ran fine then next minute went in to limp mode... you need to remove these pipes and check them by stretching them a bit to see for little holes splits,,, before spending money on it... variable vane turbo's when they go they destroy the engine by dumping bits of the vanes and all the oil from the sump in to the air intake... also worth a try is spray loads of wd 40 and spray on grease on to the linkage on the turbo,, could of seized up so wastegate not allowing it to boost when it should,,,
as for garage checking these pipes hmmmmm i've had many a car from other garages where they have been lazy and not started at the beginning and just condemn the most expensive part thinking that the customer will just scrap the car because the mechanic did not have enough knowledge or could not be bothered with fixing it... and then it turns out to be a 20 part say...

another thought could be that someone has been messing with the wastegate linkage,, by shortening it will increase boost pressure,, ie over boost could be forced by doing this,,, same as if the wastegate is not opening and closing correctly due to heavy soot build up or corrosion in any of the pivots... maybe remove turbo and clean it and soak it in some diesel over night and then clean it next day and oil it worth a try,,, first

Last edited by mike1967; 12th April 2014 at 15:47.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 28th April 2014, 22:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraith-of-vern View Post
Hello,

I have a 2004 Honda Civic 1.7 CTDi. In the past I have had a few problems with it going into limp mode when accelerating to 50-60 mph when doing high revs. This is a problem I am yet to fully resolve but still havn't bought a new Boost Pressure Sensor. See: 1.7CTDi going into limp mode - Honda Civic Forum

After an incident last week where it went into limp mode before and after putting fuel into the car, I assumed that it might just be a case of pulling some dodgy fuel through when it was low. However this is definitely not the case.

When I start the car, after after 20 or 30 seconds idling the car will go into limp mode and will limit itself to about 3000rpm. After a few tests at driving it I noticed that it would go into limp mode whilst driving normally as well (20-30mph).

I took it to a mechanic over the weekend which is where my car has been since, and after speaking with him it would seem to be a further development to the problem I began to encounter some 18 months ago as detailed in the linked thread.

So it is a recurrence of the old 'Boost Pressure' issue. The turbo has been cleaned out and a new vacuum valve has been put on it. None of which has fixed the problem.

The mechanic has taken it to Honda, and they have come back saying what I read so often on this forum. "New turbo, 1200. But that might not fix the problem".

At the moment from what I have just been told, what it happened that whilst idling the car checks the turbo vanes, notices a problem and then just swaps over to limp mode. Although I will speak to him further tonight so I can get a more details as to the error codes and a few other things if it come to me having to sell the car.

So right at this moment in time I am absolutely not sure on what to do, I've been told that it obviously isn't worth spending that amount of money repairing, and that I'm best to try to sell it as spares or repairs on ebay.

I could really use some help on this issue, even some advice would be massively helpful at this moment in time. I have already posted this on a separate Honda forum and am yet to receive any replies.


Note: I also know that this is a very common issue which has faced many owners of the 1.7CTDi Civic and that it is difficult to get a correct diagnosis being that Honda dealers are always eager to just try ripping out the turbo first and then work their way from there. But I am also aware that since this issue has faced many owners, they will probably have a better understanding of the little things which could also cause this problem.
you should try another map sensor just to rule it out,, as long as the other sensor looks same it will be the same standard Bosch item really, worth ago. dont relie on cleaning old one,
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 14th May 2014, 23:57
 
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I have one of these civics since 2004,bought ex demo from Honda with 4000 miles on the clock, at 9000 miles these symtoms arose took it back to Honda they said it needed a modified turbo and piping,job done till a few wks ago, still only done 57000 in this car and this major power loss has reared it's ugly head again.

I'm getting an intermittent MIL lamp which comes on for a day or so and sometimes stays off for a day or so, this is the egr fault code on mine P2413 Exhaust gas recirculation performance low also getting code P1237 Undocumented Manufacturer code which with a bit of googling sounds it something to do with the turbo yet again.

Took to a local garage he advised me to have a brand new EGR valve fitted, Brand new aftermarket map sensor and EVRV Vacuum valve of some sort. All this has cost me over 630.00 and now the car is worse! Still getting intermittent P2413 EGR performance and still getting P2137 exactly as it was before I gave it to the garage and sometimes when there is boost ie the turbo working there is a loud whining whistle when accelerating.

Been to the same garage twice and not taking it back there again, I've contacted the credit card company to tell them he's just guessing at parts and charging me for the privellage.

And after all this I'm still losing power and getting egr faults, I'm seriously getting fed up with this car, first time I got a Honda and after so little mileage it's giving me so much trouble.
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