Dealer offer threads deleted - Civinfo
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 24th September 2008, 14:44 Thread Starter
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Dealer offer threads deleted

Unfortunately, it appears that Honda UK have insisted that some dealers remove all their offer threads (which I have done for them) and they are not to post offers on here in the future.

This is a great shame, but these things happen. Other brands seem to cope quite well with offers on the internet too.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 24th September 2008, 16:59
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Honda don't like customers to get a good deal then !!
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 24th September 2008, 17:09
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Perhaps it shows they are trying to shift all the 08 cars before the 09 cars are released......
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 24th September 2008, 17:10
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Perhaps it shows what we've known all along Honda UK is run by planks..........................
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 24th September 2008, 17:47
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Nice. Are PMs likely to be acceptable?


I'm guessing Honda don't want what Economists call Perfect Information
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 24th September 2008, 17:48 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave87 View Post
Nice. Are PMs likely to be acceptable?
Of course. I think it's just unacceptable to advertise new cars at discounted prices.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 24th September 2008, 18:05
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The new advert will have to be 'Buy a Civic and we'll sell it you at full price' Ideal in an economic downturn.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 24th September 2008, 23:18
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this plain sucks. One of the main reasons i paid to use this site, apart from wanting to support Pottsy, was to make use of the dealer discounts as advertised. I think Honda just shot themselves in the foot. I deplore Hondas decision to NOT allow dealer advertising deals on here. Honda Bigwigs if you ever read this, note what i said.
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 06:44 Thread Starter
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It's very odd.

You have a car to sell with a RRP of £20,000.

You can send letters claiming that the reader is specially invited by the commercial director to a "cost price" exclusive sale where you will be able to buy this car so cheaply the director himself will pay for the mats.

You can launch a massive sale complete with TV advertising.

All the communication I get from dealers now in the post is offers of enormous price cuts.

Yet advertise that car here for £19,995 and you can get fined and threatened.

I guess the dealers are going to have to look carefully at the franchise agreement and make sure their advertising is in line with it.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 06:53
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I suppose it's going to have to work in reverse then.

If you are in the market for a new or used Civic then post your requirements and wait for the dealer PM's.

or

Dealers post what they've got at the full RRP and invite prospective buyers to contact them for 'further details'.

I'll bet this is after a complaint to Honda from dealers who cannot match the posted prices.
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 07:02 Thread Starter
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I agree.

Get the car details up and offer it at a "special massive discount". Not quite as good though, because you can't get a reader to see the price and then start to wonder.... People often don't want to contact dealers for the price, because they are then a "prospect" and fear that they'll get hounded by the salesman for months.
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 07:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsy View Post
I agree.

Get the car details up and offer it at a "special massive discount". Not quite as good though, because you can't get a reader to see the price and then start to wonder.... People often don't want to contact dealers for the price, because they are then a "prospect" and fear that they'll get hounded by the salesman for months.
Are they allowed to say 'Buy a Civic at RRP and we will give you £x,000 extra for your PX, then the car is not being undervalued
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 07:24 Thread Starter
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Or just "cashback"?
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 07:32
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It is unfair that Honda will not allow dealers will quote prices on here, yet they will support What Car (by paying for advertising space) which states a 'target price' that they say should be attainable at any franchised dealer.
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 08:01
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Well as a person who maybe looking to change the civic for A N OTHER depending on price/job situation perhaps in the new year can I say that this has really P****d me off.

Perhaps I will look elsewhere now.
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 08:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsy View Post
Yet advertise that car here for £19,995 and you can get fined and threatened.
Hang on, surely that would be against OFT trading policies, after all they are only a franchise and pay to use Honda's name and certain other rights (to be threatened and/or fined is surely taking things a bit too far), once the car has been bought surely it is theirs to sell however they wish? Also is it not the same as seeing offers in a local dealers window or by fliers in the post, which with the fliers are often unsolicited and just get up peoples noses whereas here you are preaching to the converted?

Tom

PS: Honda if you're reading this:

I DO NOT LIKE THE WAY YOU ARE HANDLING THINGS SO FAR, AND THIS IS YET ANOTHER REASON I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER HONDA!
- POOR ALL ROUND SERVICE AND COMMITMENT - it also now sounds like Honda are taking advice on company relations from the Yakuza
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 09:01
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I really think Honda are not helping in this current economic climate !! Business should try and grab as much as they can anyway they can, providing they are doing nothing ilegal so what.....................competition is good . I could go on !!!!
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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 09:12
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I really think Honda are not helping in this current economic climate !! Business should try and grab as much as they can anyway they can, providing they are doing nothing ilegal so what.....................competition is good . I could go on !!!!
Agreed, with the downturn I saw trying to sell my BMW, car dealers should be going hammer and tongs to try to sell us cars....

Tom
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 10:06 Thread Starter
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I'm no lawyer, but I do know that car dealers are covered by the EC cars block exemption laws.

EU/Competition - Car Sector/Distribution of motor vehicles

http://ec.europa.eu/comm/competition...rochure_en.pdf

In essence everything in the EU is covered by Article 81:

Quote:
Article 81(1) provides that:

The following shall be prohibited as incompatible with the common market: all agreements between undertakings, decisions by associations of undertakings and concerted practices which may affect trade between Member States and which have as their object or effect the prevention, restriction or distortion of competition within the common market, and in particular those which:

(a) directly or indirectly fix purchase or selling prices or any other trading conditions;

(b) limit or control production, markets, technical development, or investment;
Except the motor trade who are exempt from this, under certain conditions known as "block exemption". But there are certain anti-competitive practices that are not allowed, and if those are contained in an agreement between the supplier and the dealer then the block exemption is not allowed and the very restrictive Article 81 applies and the agreement is most likely illegal.

The most important restrictions (things that are not allowed in the agreement) are called hardcore restrictions (1400/2002 Article 4). They are worth a read.

I am not trained in this, but here are some Q&As from the explanatory document.

Quote:
Question 12: What are active and passive sales?

... General advertising or promotions in media which are normally available or in circulation at the authorised place of establishment of the dealer or repairer or on the Internet are passive sales methods.
Quote:
Question 32: What if the dealer says that he has been told not to grant discounts on a certain model?

Dealers must be free to sell vehicles below the supplierís recommended price. Manufacturers cannot fix actual selling prices or minimum prices. If a supplier were to restrict a dealerís ability to grant discounts, this would be a serious restriction of competition, which would mean that the supplierís distribution agreements would not be covered by the block exemption.
Quote:
Question 44: Is a dealer free to advertise on the Internet and to sell new vehicles over the Internet?

A dealership web site is a passive selling tool and the dealer may use it for advertising and for carrying out transactions, and this use may not be restricted under the Regulation. Nor may the dealer be restricted under the Regulation in his use of the Internet or of email instead of more traditional methods, such as normal mail or fax, to conclude sales contracts.

A dealer must also be free to make agreements with Internet referral sites, which put consumers in contact with the dealer who is able to supply a vehicle. A vehicle manufacturer may require the dealer using the Internet to comply with the qualitative requirements regarding the promotion of the relevant brand of motor vehicles over the Internet. A supplier may also require an Internet referral site to which a dealer out-sources its advertising to comply with its quality requirements. Such sites, which may promote the sales of new motor vehicles of one or more brands, may also refer consumers who wish to purchase a new vehicle to one of the dealers which is connected to the referral site.
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 10:51
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Can we just clarify that this " Problem" just relates to new car sales and NOT accessories or parts in general ?
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