Selling rules - Civinfo
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post #1 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 08:54 Thread Starter
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Selling rules

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1601780

I don't know if I'm alone in this but, but I don't get along with this rule on items advertised on this forum only being able to be sold through this forum.

Above is a link to an example.

There are several situations where it doesn't work in my eyes.

The first is say you have a few items for sale like I had recently. You sell one item listed through the forum, but then get asked on pick up or over email or the phone, "what else have you got for sale?" Now is this the buyer putting you in a bad situation, because you say that, "They are listed on the forum, so before I sell them to you can you please post up in the other thread that you want them please?" Otherwise you've broken the rules.

The second is an item is listed on the forum and you mention down the pub or at a meet to someone that you've bought some nice new alloys and the inevitable question pops up, "What are you doing with your old ones?" In this scenario the person isn't registered on the forum, they might not be registered on any forums, maybe that sort of thing doesn't interest them. You've either got to asked them to sign up or post up stating you are withdrawing the listing before you agree to sell them so as to comply with the rules.

In the case above, the OP would have been better posting that they are withdrawing the listing rather than telling the truth and stating they are sold.

The issue I have, is this is the only forum I've used that maintains an exclusivity rule and none of the other forums have exploded etc... If someone wants an item and posts but it has been sold, the simple reply is, "sorry bud, it's been sold." Minor annoyance to the potential buyer but not the end of the world.

The majority of threads on here where a person has sold an item before posting that it is being withdrawn only gets comments afterwards from people who had no interest in buying the item, often the OP had had no offers in the sale thread. My point being, who is being affected here by this rule other than the OP risking a suspension or selling ban?

Only recently have completed threads started to be archived and only then at the OP's request, so what's the difference with a listing where an item gets sold elsewhere? OP just posts up like above that the item is sold. Currently so as not to be seen to be breaking the rules the OP might be tempted to leave the thread without an update and the listing stays live indefinitely.

I'm a mod on another forum and our only real rules are a picture of the actual item for sale with a piece of paper including your username to prove you have it in your possession, when an item is sold the OP posts to say it is sold and no longer available (a mod then automatically assumes the thread can be archived) and all threads are archived after 90 days without any activity (easily done via vBulletin mod control panel).

This leaves the area tidy, and most people just post on live threads asking if it is still available if they are interested. It's simple and works.

I might be alone in this, but I think it is time for a change.

This thread is intended for discussion and is not a dig at the mods or any members.
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post #2 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 09:02
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I have to agree.

The current set up will, inevitably, lead to site rule breaking....either that or people will just stop posting in the for sale section.

Let's be honest....if I post up in the for sale section and someone I know (or one of my friends knows ) offers to buy said item, I'm not going to turn him down because the item is listed on here.....
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post #3 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 09:32
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Have to agree, point is to give yourself the widest audience to sell to. Why not state it is for sale elsewhere and can be withdrawn from civinfo. As you say if someone asks if it is for sale a simple "no"would suffice.
There are loads of threads where they have sat for months, someone sees it, asks the question and been told it is now sold, no big deal, no harm done. I also see loads where they have been sold but remain open, that is more annoying to me.
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post #4 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 09:39
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obvious the item is sold either elsewhere or pm which is against the rules, in my opinion this is easy and a 6month ban from the for sale section will help sort these examples out. If you dont agree to the rules then don't advertise simple I do agree that threads should be automatically closed 90days after the last post as this would remove a lot of dead threads.

I had one the other week on a set of mats I offered full asking price but then this was plus delivery even though this not stated as an extra on advert, I backed out due to being only around 10 cheaper than Honda in the end.

I will also admit I messed a guy about over a set of wheels around a month ago but what you all did not see I even sent the seller 10 to say sorry as this is not the way I do business and was not my intention hence why I sent him a drink.
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post #5 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 09:56
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The rules are of course all my fault.

When I set the forum up, I wanted it to be like the forums I liked, and not like the forums I disliked. The one forum I had like and used a lot for trading was the vast avforums. There was (and still is) lots of successful trading of high value items over there.

Have a squint at their trading rules. Even though 7 years have now passed, their rules look oddly similar to our rules.

The reason for the exclusive sale over there, was to prevent a long negotiation and barter from taking place and almost coming to an agreement, only to see the item vanish (maybe even at a lower price) on ebay.

If we switch to that system here, then we should expect a lot of disappointed buyers, who will have to wait until the ebay auction has ended, until they know if they are getting their item.

I guess one possible variation is to disallow other auctions sites, but allow other forums.
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post #6 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 10:07
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The rules do state this:

Quote:
5. You may not list an item that is available for sale elsewhere or at auction,
including eBay. This is because anyone trying to buy your item here will have to wait until the auction has ended, and then may not get the item. Likewise while a deal is being negotiated here the item may sell elsewhere. The only exception to this rule is whole cars - which may be advertised here (in the Cars for Sale section) in addition other car sale websites such as Autotrader and Pistonheads (please post in your thread when your car has been sold or traded in). If your items here are not selling and you wish to advertise them elsewhere - simply PM a moderator and he will close your thread for you. You may not advertise links to your own auctions held elsewhere. Any ebay links (including your own auctions) may be placed in the "ebay links" forum. This forum section does not allow replies, and is not visible to Google and the outside world.
But, let's look at it a different way. A member accepts and offer on the thread and then gets an offer from a 'mate' for the same item down the pub and maybe it means you receive a little more money to your pocket. Now, the item is a little bulky and to be honest to sell it to the 'mate' in the pub would save so much hassle. But, the member has already agreed to sell the item to another forum member, who is now arranging to transfer money to you etc.

So, where do we stand on this issue? Who should get the item?

If your item isn't selling on here then, as the rules suggest, ask a Mod to close and archive it. All we ask is that people follow the rules to make it a fair playing field for all concerned.
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post #7 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 10:11 Thread Starter
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I agree with the items not being on eBay too, don't get me wrong.

If you list an item on eBay you expect it to sell at the end of that allotted auction time. I don't see the point in also listing it on a forum. It basically turns the thread into a link to the eBay listing or at the very least a thinly veiled threat to get offers in on the forum before the listing ends.
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post #8 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 10:11
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Partially agree with this. The rules are fairly simple to follow and it irritates me when someone signs up just to sell something, then breaks the selling rules.

When I've sold on here, I've done as many others have and advertised to other forum members first as I'd rather deal on here, then if the item doesn't sell I simply state that it is now for sale elsewhere. Perhaps these two options can be run in conjunction with each other, but the OP must state on the thread wether the item is exclusively for sale on civinfo or not.

There is also always the section to post links to ebay listings etc.
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post #9 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 10:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsy View Post
The rules are of course all my fault.

When I set the forum up, I wanted it to be like the forums I liked, and not like the forums I disliked. The one forum I had like and used a lot for trading was the vast avforums. There was (and still is) lots of successful trading of high value items over there.

Have a squint at their trading rules. Even though 7 years have now passed, their rules look oddly similar to our rules.

The reason for the exclusive sale over there, was to prevent a long negotiation and barter from taking place and almost coming to an agreement, only to see the item vanish (maybe even at a lower price) on ebay.

If we switch to that system here, then we should expect a lot of disappointed buyers, who will have to wait until the ebay auction has ended, until they know if they are getting their item.

I guess one possible variation is to disallow other auctions sites, but allow other forums.
I agree av forums is great, but it also allows you to archive your own threads and lets you edit your posts indefinitely, and there is no approval process when for sale threads are posted,why is this not copied... Is there an annual review of the rules by the way, and is there a committee that decides?

Last edited by devil84; 2nd June 2013 at 10:41.
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post #10 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 10:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsy View Post
I guess one possible variation is to disallow other auctions sites, but allow other forums.
Bingo. How long will it take to implement?
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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 11:57
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The reason for not advertising anywhere else is so that someone doesn't put an offer in, only to be disappointed.

I believe changing this would only lead to people missing out and opens the door to dodgy off-thread deals.
As such I personally strongly oppose changing the current rules.

Many users only check the forums infrequently and days can go by before sellers respond to their for sale threads - it becomes incredibly easy for buyers to miss out on items just because the seller was more active on another forum first.

Archiving your own posts is a good move - but editing indefinitely is only going to allow dodgy traders the ability to change their ads part way through a negotiation etc.

IMO the system we have is one that works. More enforcement of the rules os needed along with better archiving of old threads... but those are minor issues so why fix something that isn't broken?
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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 12:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devil84 View Post
IIs there an annual review of the rules by the way, and is there a committee that decides?
We are always looking at ways to improve the site and if an issue is raised we take a fresh look at the rules to see if we need to change them or not. And, every time a thread is raised about the rules we take some time to review them.

I hope that helps.
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post #13 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 13:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syx View Post
The reason for not advertising anywhere else is so that someone doesn't put an offer in, only to be disappointed.

I believe changing this would only lead to people missing out and opens the door to dodgy off-thread deals.
As such I personally strongly oppose changing the current rules.

Many users only check the forums infrequently and days can go by before sellers respond to their for sale threads - it becomes incredibly easy for buyers to miss out on items just because the seller was more active on another forum first.

Archiving your own posts is a good move - but editing indefinitely is only going to allow dodgy traders the ability to change their ads part way through a negotiation etc.

IMO the system we have is one that works. More enforcement of the rules os needed along with better archiving of old threads... but those are minor issues so why fix something that isn't broken?
I have to agree with Sam.

it's not hard to say to a potential buyer outside of civinfo "let me check civinfo for any offers, if there isn't, ill close the listing and you can have it"
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post #14 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 19:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazytrev View Post
I have to agree with Sam.

it's not hard to say to a potential buyer outside of civinfo "let me check civinfo for any offers, if there isn't, ill close the listing and you can have it"
does this not lead to someone saying ive been offered x amount elsewhere and if you want it, you have to bid more? not a good direction to go in my opinion.
thoroughly agree about getting stuff archived to tidy up what i think is a very messy for sale section at times.
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post #15 of 74 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2013, 19:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigdog View Post
does this not lead to someone saying ive been offered x amount elsewhere and if you want it, you have to bid more? not a good direction to go in my opinion.
Doesn't make sense mate.

If we got rid of the rule regarding items can only be advertised on the forum and nowhere else, then the above would happen.

I'm happy with the rule that you can't advertise elsewhere.

I was merely saying, if somebody outside of the forum is interested in what you have for sale and you have NO OFFERS in the forum then ask for it to be closed so you can sell elsewhere.
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post #16 of 74 (permalink) Old 3rd June 2013, 10:04
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I've got to agree with Loxy on this one. With the exception of auction sites, I think we should be free to advertise our wares elsewhere to maximise the chance of an item selling.

Anything we can do to make it easier to sell on the forum should be seriously considered. Having been a seller on eBay and Amazon, I can tell you I'd much rather sell on forums any day of the week. It is annoying though, when you see people wading in after an item has sold, merely to stir things up when they will have had no interest in the item in the first place.

At the end of the day precisely how much of an inconvenience is it to not get an item you have made an offer for, because it has sold on another forum? I think it's a lot of fuss over nothing, and it would be far more beneficial to the forum to relax the rules slightly to encourage more people to sell. Lets face it, people are probably advertising elsewhere already, it's not the easiest rule to police unless you are on every internet forum to check.
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post #17 of 74 (permalink) Old 3rd June 2013, 10:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy View Post
At the end of the day precisely how much of an inconvenience is it to not get an item you have made an offer for, because it has sold on another forum? I think it's a lot of fuss over nothing, and it would be far more beneficial to the forum to relax the rules slightly to encourage more people to sell. Lets face it, people are probably advertising elsewhere already, it's not the easiest rule to police unless you are on every internet forum to check.
For highly desirable items such as trim parts and spoilers, I think it would be extremely disappointing to find that an item had been sold elsewhere.

At the end of the day this is not a sales forum, it's a discussion forum with a sale section. Nobody is forcing you to advertise here if you want to advertise elsewhere...
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post #18 of 74 (permalink) Old 3rd June 2013, 10:29
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Agree with sam, either put it up for sale here or dont, if you dont think its gonna sell on here then dont bother listing it.
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post #19 of 74 (permalink) Old 3rd June 2013, 10:34
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Also agree with Sam here. It's quite easy for sellers to know what items are going to go very quickly on here, and the potential buyers will quite rightly be annoyed if they get a response of "the spoilers been sold on another forum".
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post #20 of 74 (permalink) Old 3rd June 2013, 10:37
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There are a lot of members on here who are members of multiple forums. Attitudes like that are just going to mean items which you might have had a chance of buying here, will just be sold elsewhere and not even advertised.

I'd rather have a 50% chance of getting an item that is listed on two forums, than a zero percent chance because it was never listed in the first place.

As a compromise sellers could be required to state it is advertised elsewhere, then people who feel so strongly about it can just avoid those threads...
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