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Old 20th April 2011, 17:56   #1 (permalink)
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Mugen M20 at TDi North

Very lucky to have a Mugen M20 in today for some evaluation work before we carry out a few modifications to it.
Took the opportunity to stick it on the dyno to see what its pushing out which was interesting as all the motors have been calibrated on the F1 spec Engine dyno.

Enjoy. We certainly are.









And finally one for all the haters out there that keep bleating on about our dyno over-reading here is the PROVEN on an engine dyno 240bhp Mugen M20 vs our own Black Mugen Toda Powered FN2.




Anyone want an NA M20 beater...... Give us a call at TDi North.
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Old 20th April 2011, 18:17   #2 (permalink)
 
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take it the driver either had a long drive or was tracking the car later on?
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Old 20th April 2011, 18:22   #3 (permalink)
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Long drive. People come to us from all over Europe.
Car will be staying a while pretty soon as well.
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Old 20th April 2011, 18:23   #4 (permalink)
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whats on the agenda
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Old 20th April 2011, 18:40   #5 (permalink)
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Nice, impressive figures!!
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Old 20th April 2011, 19:29   #6 (permalink)
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Comparing power and torque figures from the Mugen and TDI North cars, the obvious conclusions are:

1. The Mugen M20 is rather pathetically lukewarm powerwise for a car that costs 38,599

2. TDI's car (which can be dupicated from a standard FN2 for a good deal less wonga) is seriously ballistic and would blow the Mugen car into the weeds...

Oh and please - I don't want to hear the 'exclusivity' bit in defence of the Mugen....

Last edited by Lunar Tick; 20th April 2011 at 20:14.
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Old 20th April 2011, 20:29   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Tick View Post
Oh and please - I don't want to hear the 'exclusivity' bit in defence of the Mugen....


I'd be a bit careful with that statement as there are 20 of them and only 1 of the Black ones

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Old 20th April 2011, 21:21   #8 (permalink)
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Were they run at the same time?

Is that with the A3's in now? You finished it all yet??

One thing to say is why on earth are they switching at 5500rpm? You can see that the high cam would have produced lots more earlier (and be shaped more like your graph). Even then you would have an average of 15% of so more power across the range, which is fairly significant.

Given the M20 has the same FD2 pistons, FD2 oil pump and special cams that were a one-off, where would you say the difference comes from? I know you have a bit more compression from the TODA head gasket. What about mileage? How "tight" and new was the M20?

10% more at the bottom of the rev range points to much better compression on your car, but your comp ratio is the same - so could be much better cylinder sealing on yours?

Dunno - but would like to know

TALK TO ME

Last edited by Blade; 20th April 2011 at 21:26.
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Old 20th April 2011, 21:29   #9 (permalink)
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Blade - different days but the gaps are there to be seen and would only be slight differences if any.
My car has the A3s in. Was running 250 with JDMs. Done bit more on the map so would expect slightly better than that now plus also playing with different intakes and throttle bodies but to be honest for an NA 2L mine is pretty maxed out now.

Possibly looking at K24 options in the future but mines pretty much finished now.

Edited : don't forget they are running the manifold with the cat. This makes vtec much later or you hit a big trough.
Best comparison would be say Lukes or Murrys which I tuned with just intakes exhaust and JDM cams.
Basically I could hit that sort of power on a stock FN2 on a 3k budget.

With the M20 it's everything else you get in the package...... And I'll still have one if I could afford it.

Last edited by tdi-north; 20th April 2011 at 21:34.
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Old 20th April 2011, 23:03   #10 (permalink)
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Old 20th April 2011, 23:28   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
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stuff...Basically I could hit that sort of power on a stock FN2 on a 3k budget...
What would the shopping list be?
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Old 20th April 2011, 23:45   #12 (permalink)
 
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The midrange gains from 4500 to 6500 are impressive, this is where yours will drive better on the road. I like it
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Old 21st April 2011, 00:19   #13 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
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Bl
Edited : don't forget they are running the manifold with the cat. This makes vtec much later or you hit a big trough.
why on my car is the vtec lower with the cat?
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Old 21st April 2011, 01:58   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdi-north View Post
Very lucky to have a Mugen M20 in today for some evaluation work
No you have this wrong TP. "They are very lucky to have their M20 at TDI NORTH"
I'm pretty sure I speak for the consensus of the forum. well almost
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Old 21st April 2011, 08:00   #15 (permalink)
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Paul, what is on the car you can't bolt on? The engine bits did it for me prior to seeing this graph. Everything else you can buy and if you start with an m200...?
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Thanks to Blade from:
Old 21st April 2011, 08:20   #16 (permalink)
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It's a hand built engine with different camshafts.
Remember it had to be fully road legal so incorporates the Mugen Manifold with cat.

If you can work within a zero constraints project you would loose the cat and the restriction that creates and thus gain big midrange. This car is very well setup to meet current emissions requirements and still perform as an NA high performance car.

The only other car that has ever come close to this is the S2000 and when you compare the power delivery of the 2 together you realise just how good the M20 setup is.
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Old 21st April 2011, 08:45   #17 (permalink)
 
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But its slow.

Nice car but....meh, i dont like 'em. lol
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Old 21st April 2011, 09:58   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by higham View Post
why on my car is the vtec lower with the cat?
I think different Dynos show VTEC crossover at different places, TDI North's dyno put my VTEC crossover in once place and TDI South's dyno shows my VTEC should be somewhere different. At one stage TDI North set my VTEC at 3900rpm but TDI South set it at 4700rpm (no differences in mods at that point).

Who is correct
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Old 21st April 2011, 10:13   #19 (permalink)
 
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But its slow.

Nice car but....meh, i dont like 'em. lol
I dunno looking at it just doesn't look like a 38 grand motor?? The splitters look cheap they should of put the proper jobbies on with the fenders!
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Old 21st April 2011, 10:19   #20 (permalink)
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I dunno looking at it just doesn't look like a 38 grand motor?? The splitters look cheap they should of put the proper jobbies on with the fenders!
and the bonnet..!
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