FN2 Tuning - Civinfo
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 20th September 2008, 21:04 Thread Starter
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Question FN2 Tuning

Hi, Im new to Civinfo and new to my new to my 07 Type r, Its got to be said im a little disappointed with the peformance. An old standard wrx slowly pulled away and a Focus st also had the legs on me, I have read various reports and seen roadtests on you tube and they are suppose to be almost the same,,, but they arnt.
So where do you go for genuine bolt on or plug in Hp, It seems a mixed bag with induction kits and no one seems to be saying about good gains with exhausts.
I have heard about the CPL ecu but for a quick blast out or trackday whats the point of lowering the Vtec, you should never let your rpm get that low, so 600 ish for good mid range and very little topend power,, Umm.
My point, by the time you have paid for your Cpl ecu, the headders and induction kit to make it all work for about 15bhp (ish) gain seems a little excessive, surely spending a bit more and going for the supercharger is the way to go for genuine gains, or have I missed something, please tell me your thoughts.
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 20th September 2008, 21:08
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Welcome aboard. I would go for the charger kit if i had money to burn
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 20th September 2008, 22:33
 
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Join the club that is beginning to understand Honda will have to go forced induction pretty soon for power and Co2 emissions!

(The real answer is buy a turbo car for bangs per bucks results) sad, but Honda have just about lost the high rev arguement now emmissions are factored in from the factory!

IMO its now certain that the next generation will be forced induction or hybrid, simple NA engines no longer have the power or emissions to be class leading and certainly not tuneable for sensible 's
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 20th September 2008, 23:17
 
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Both of those cars are turbocharged as you already know so while 0 - 60 times may appear similar ( for the ST anyway) their 'in gear' performance times are vastly better due the fact they have just under 100 lb ft of torque and around 20 bhp more than the civic!

The ecu reflash from Cplracing lowers the vtec point and raises the rev limit to give the car a wider power band (3800 rpm - 8600rpm) an increase of 25-30 bhp is to be expected if done as part of their stage one program.

If I wasn't bothered about warranty I'd go down the supercharged route. 290 bhp is tempting!

Don't feel to bad about being 'owned' by the wrx and st they might have been chipped...easy way to more power in turbo cars!!
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 21st September 2008, 01:29
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Sounds like you bought the wrong car.

Did you not test drive it, and the other competition to see the differences before buying? or research performance between them?

The ECU would be the first thing I would do performance wise, lowering the optimum power band and cam change point to 3800rpm can only be good for improving acceleration. Marginal 0-62MPH differences should not be considered to be on par with style, design, reliability, and the fun factor in terms of priorities, where the type-r wins every time. The differences are so slight that once you master how to drive the type-r and when to change gear etc you will not see an ST get the legs on you. Only recently have I twice had to show ST drivers what a proper hot hatch is.

If "owning" (beating) a wrx or ST is the main box you want to tick, sell up and go and buy an old supra or skyline and save a few quid.

Honda knew when they produced the type-r that it wasn't the fastest, but doesn't the likes of Vauxhall and Seat etc getting into a power figures "tug of war" not tell you something? they have to because the cars are so ordinary in all other departments.

For every 1 Type-r driver that has sold and gone for turbo charged rivals, there are just as many that have come from the others and come to the type-r, it's preference at the end of the day.

the type-r sales figures last year against the rivals speak for themselves.

Last edited by Mr JP; 21st September 2008 at 01:35.
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 21st September 2008, 01:41
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welcome to the forum

You may have bought the wrong car if you're looking for outright power

Put a supercharger on it or just buy a faster car
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 21st September 2008, 05:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP View Post

If "owning" (beating) a wrx or ST is the main box you want to tick, sell up and go and buy an old supra or skyline and save a few quid.
Mr JP speaks wise words - I would go so far to say that you shouldn't even bother to go down the "more power" route - the gains are small and the cost and effort is high.

Or just learn that the CTR is about high revs, driver skill and the resultant fun and satisfaction.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 21st September 2008, 08:13 Thread Starter
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Fn2 Tuning

Hi again, Not trying to blow wind up anyones backsided, but I did win a northeast junior rotax cart championship then went on to bikes, from brittish championship minimotos, 2 stroke Gp 125 and 250, superstock then superbike , I have had many a nice car, s1 and s2 160 elise and not long ago sold a very sorted evo6 but the 13mpg took the egde off the fun.
I know there is always room for improvement but i have a pritty good idea on how to make a car go forward.
I have only had chance to have a play of fairly straight roads (up to now) so we will see.
I did my home work and I did lean towards build quality of the type R and lets face it, it is a very good looking and very practical car. The honda blades they arnt the fastest bike but the quality and the handling are supream, if you can get out of a corner faster then your faster down the straights
The Cpl ecu,, if you can get a 30bhp and gain at topend and more rpm then thats not to bad, but still seems expensive.
as for lowering the powerband, well i still cant grasp that unless your drag or sprint racing, surly once your on the move doing a quick one you never let your rpm drop lower than 6k.

why didnt they use the S2000 engine, they have proved they can get 240bhp out of there engines, How long have the S2000's been out ? im sure they now can get more than 240bhp and made them lighter, then they could have upped the gearing, hitting 60 in second gear for all you sprint racers Then you would have a quality build car that out runs the astra vxr, st's ect.

Anyone used nitrus ?

I look forward to your views.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 21st September 2008, 08:29
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Terry - point taken!

I have installed/used nitrous, but on a 1.9 205, and I'd be stumped on how to do it reliably on a CTR (things were so simple in the old days). The snag, of course, was that you only got a few shots out of a bottle.

I suspect that the 200 bhp for the CTR was a combination of marketing and the old "no more than 200 bhp through the front wheels" excuse. But then there is a long list of those who would disagree - just look at the FWD Hondas available in Japan.

Why not start with the Hondata?
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 21st September 2008, 08:33
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There is a car nitros car on Civic Type R Owners Website
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 21st September 2008, 10:28
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Hi Terry and welcome

Hondata reflash is a building block. It's one of the first things you need to start extracting more out of your car.
Eventually it will be superseded by the fully mappable version but until that becomes available we have this reflashed ecu.

Here are full details and features of the ECU: http://www.civinfo.com/forum/tdi-north/17972-hondata-reflash-fn2-fd2.html

If you just fit that you will get lowered vtec, big jump in midrange but only a few bhp at top end.

If you fit a good cold air intake, exhaust system and manifold then the gains become bigger. The reflash is mapped for all of these mods so just installing the reflash you will see gains but not the best available.

Have a look at this: http://www.civinfo.com/forum/tdi-north/13953-day-dyno-our-tps-fn2.html

We tested a stock ecu with a few mods and see the gains made. admittedly the car was making good power stock but the gains you see are realistic when you look at whats fitted so will give you an idea.

Modifying NA cars for power is always expensive and best bang for buck is without a doubt supercharging it.

You can fit nitrous as well even on a stock car, but it's expensive. It runs out and costs about 5.50 per lb for a refill so expect the 60 refill to last maybe 3 mins max if you only have a small jet.

We use it to help spool up the turbo's and give a bit more at top end when racing.
We have fitted kits to NA cars that have gone very well, and infact one of our NA cars running Toda camshafts and NOS supercharged cars in a magazine shootout a few years back.
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 21st September 2008, 11:49 Thread Starter
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Supercharging

Whats the best quote / price around for a drive in drive out supercharging service ?

Im still trying to work out if its all worth it, Im thinking its going to cost around 3k, would I be better off just trading in the type R and getting an K1 Seat, they are a lovely car and for a 500 re map pritty rapid to ??
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 21st September 2008, 11:56
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Yes you would be better, if out and out pace is what you want, get a cupra or ST with dreamscience re-flash which you can get close to 300bhp and not risk losing your warranty as much as supercharging the FN2. You will also save a fortune.
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 21st September 2008, 19:54 Thread Starter
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speedo

I have had the satnav in for the first time today, when the car says 70mph the satnav says 63, Is thic common with the civics, The tyres are about half tread so the rolling radius is less, I guess on the plus side it means the car has done 10% less miles than's on the clock
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 22nd September 2008, 00:32
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Rotrex do a supercharger through TTS Performance which gives massive gains but at around 5k is it worth it.
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 23rd September 2008, 15:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R GT View Post
Rotrex do a supercharger through TTS Performance which gives massive gains but at around 5k is it worth it.
We just finished tuning a Rotrex powered EP3. The engine had a stock K20 block but oversized pistons and uprated rods. The car made 497bhp with addition of Water Methenol.

Fella who races it thinks it's worth every penny.
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 24th September 2008, 09:29 Thread Starter
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Nice power

Hi, 497 bhp sounds like fun but surly you have to change the clutch and gearbox and wouldnt 4 wheel drive be handy with that power,

I just cant beleive honda didnt go for about 240bhp, If they did it surly it would be better for sales, It would be probs the quickest in its class they have the engine to do it. it would have been a win win situation.

My mate has a remapped 05 sti ppp, 342bhp and its so nice and easy to drive, its effortless, Honestly it goes past my type r that quickly it just about spins it around, so maybe a hawk eye sti is the way to go, and they are the same price as the type R.

I have come to terms with my type r gt is never going to be a fast car and its just not worth spending big money for not so big gains, which you never get back, the words flogging a dead horse springs to mind, I do like driving it and its a lovely car but ill just accept it for what it is.
If I could get a supercharger for about 2k I would consider it, anymore than that I just cant justify it.
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 24th September 2008, 11:23
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Quote:
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Hi, 497 bhp sounds like fun but surly you have to change the clutch and gearbox and wouldnt 4 wheel drive be handy with that power,
It does have an uprated clutch but still retains the standard gearbox for now.
The great things about Superchargers is the power delivery is linear so its not like a turbo car coming on boost and being FWD struggling for traction.

There is a supercharger kit available for the FN2 but your looking at nearer 4K for it. Also its not just about power you need to factor in being able to handle the power. This means uprating the clutch, brakes, suspension and possibly an LSD. Add all this up and it starts to make you wonder about an already boosted car.

Thing is people do do this. Its an easy car to extract power out of and modify slowly. It is also a very rewarding car to drive at a higher level of tune. Results in drag racing and Time Attack show just how competetive a well setup Civic can actually be against known benchmarks like the Scoob and Evo's.
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 24th September 2008, 14:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry H View Post
I have had the satnav in for the first time today, when the car says 70mph the satnav says 63, Is thic common with the civics, The tyres are about half tread so the rolling radius is less, I guess on the plus side it means the car has done 10% less miles than's on the clock
Yes, normal:
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/electro...cy-merged.html
Click here for more speedo threads.
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 25th September 2008, 09:47 Thread Starter
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Drag racing

I used to do a little drag racing at york, I used to run GXSR1100 L, best time 9.7 @ 148 mph over the line but that was many moons ago.

Have you seen my mates orange jago jeep, it takes it to york and santa pod, its a road leagal 5.6 rover with nitrus, it runs high 9's.
It usualy spends allot of its time on 2 wheels. now thats good fun when evo's ect get up behind it, they dont stay there very long.
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