Realistic BHP figure for modified CTR ? - Civinfo
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 17th November 2008, 15:22 Thread Starter
 
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Realistic BHP figure for modified CTR ?

What would be a realistic increase in BHP for a CTR with a set or 'modestly priced' modifications ?

Thinking along the lines of:

Milltek exchaust - 400 approx
Hondata - 500 approx
Full induction kit - 100 approx

i.e. 1k or thereabouts.

Is it realistic to think that a stock CTR with 205-210 BHP could make around the 240 BHP mark or is that being over optimistic ?


If not, its 1k on the rages I think ! Would prefer to spend it on power than looks though, thats just my preference as I do a few trackdays.

Add another 1k on an LSD, brakes and suspension and I can see myself having a half-decent trackday car for next summer
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 17th November 2008, 15:28
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id say with a ctr at 210 stock you would be looking at about the 230 mark for these 3 mods
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 17th November 2008, 15:36
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If you are talking peak power these 3 won't take you to 230BHP or 240BHP, the Milltek exhaust will give you 7BHP max at the top end, Hondata gives 1BHP more peak but obviously more of the 200BHP lower down, and the Induction kit won't give more than 10BHP and that's being very optimistic and probably only the Group N can get close to this but even that hasn't been proven.

The Hondata ECU will give the biggest transformation I would say, then add the exhaust, then I would go for a new manifold before the induction kit.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 17th November 2008, 15:41
 
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in peak power only +- 5 Hp with this mods (you need a race header to see nice gains at peak power)

At 3500 - 6500 probably 15/20 HP
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 17th November 2008, 16:02 Thread Starter
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Do Milltek do a race header for their catback ?

Had a full supersprint system on my last car but don't fancy the 3k+ cost on the CTR so would prefer milltek standard or similar.

Hmm perhaps I was being a bit over-optimistic with the Hondata.

With regards to the hondata Mr JP, would I not be better to get the exhaust BEFORE the hondata so that the hondata can be programmed with my exhaust in mind rather than the other way round ? Or does the hondata read and adapt to other upgrades once fitted ?

Cheers
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 17th November 2008, 16:05
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The Hondata is a generic MAP and can't be changed, there may be more on the market early next year which is what I'm waiting for. From what I have read the Hondata should be your starting point because it transforms the car totally and feels like there is much more torque and power from 3500RPM, the Milltek will add to gains but really it's just noise I think. Ideally you want the lot.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 17th November 2008, 16:31 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr JP View Post
The Hondata is a generic MAP and can't be changed, there may be more on the market early next year which is what I'm waiting for. From what I have read the Hondata should be your starting point because it transforms the car totally and feels like there is much more torque and power from 3500RPM, the Milltek will add to gains but really it's just noise I think. Ideally you want the lot.

Hmm thanks for that, didn't realise the Hondata was generic - thought for 500 it would be programmable via a dura cable or similar ! Someone is laughing all the way to the bank if they're getting 500 a pop then

Would've thought it'd be programmable for that price

Any heads up on what may be coming onto the market next year ? Have dealt with Softronic in the US before and their stuff is fantastic and programmable as well, but they don't do Honda unfortunately.

Yea I'm probably not going to get much of a gain without a full exhaust system including race headers, and much as I love Supersprint, a 3k system on a 15k car doesn't seem to make much sense. Think I'll go for the LSD and improve the brakes. Rest of the money I'll spend on more trackday tuition, lets face it - thats what'll shave the most off my laptimes !
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 17th November 2008, 20:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafferj View Post
Hmm thanks for that, didn't realise the Hondata was generic - thought for 500 it would be programmable via a dura cable or similar ! Someone is laughing all the way to the bank if they're getting 500 a pop then

Would've thought it'd be programmable for that price


You not been about the Honda forums much have you or you would realise what a bargain the Hondata ECU reflash is!

You get a whole ECU with a reflashed map that gives gains on its own or when you add mods upto intake, manifold and exhaust it gets better and better.

The mappable one for the old EP3's/DC5's is over 700 to modify your own ECU alone then another 150-350 for mapping.

You won't get a better mod other than an LSD.

Oh and induction kit for 100??? It's not a Corsa am affraid.

Decent intake, catback and ECU you will get 218-220bhp unless you have a very strong engine from stock. My first FN2 made 212 stock!
To get 240 your going to need a manifold and mappable ECU.
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 17th November 2008, 21:09
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I think with: Hondata ECU, GruppeM, Toda Manifold, Toda exhaust, RRC intake manifold and hondata gasket... 245/250bhp its possible... It would be very strong anyways.

Them a mappable ECU would improve on top of that.

But Before this i thing upgrading Suspension, brakes and a LSD are clever moves...
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 17th November 2008, 22:01
 
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imo the best mod is a replacement to the cat with a cheater lambda sensor, illegal but the cat is very restrictive
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 17th November 2008, 22:16 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tpw View Post


You not been about the Honda forums much have you or you would realise what a bargain the Hondata ECU reflash is!

You get a whole ECU with a reflashed map that gives gains on its own or when you add mods upto intake, manifold and exhaust it gets better and better.

The mappable one for the old EP3's/DC5's is over 700 to modify your own ECU alone then another 150-350 for mapping.

You won't get a better mod other than an LSD.

Oh and induction kit for 100??? It's not a Corsa am affraid.

Decent intake, catback and ECU you will get 218-220bhp unless you have a very strong engine from stock. My first FN2 made 212 stock!
To get 240 your going to need a manifold and mappable ECU.

Hmm I'd prefer a mappable one for that sort of money considering the equivalent one on my last car was 400 and completely adjustable, including fuel settings and can be matched perfectly with an exhaust system. I was meaning with the software allowing you to map your own with that particular system, rather than having to then pay extra for someone else to do it for you after buying unit, thats just crazy !

No I haven't been about the Honda forums much incidentally, I've only just joined and haven't even taken possesion of the vehicle yet - not long now though

I agree that the LSD is an excellent mod for track use, fairly negligable difference for road use though...

Am now thinking I'll spend the money on suspension, FRS, and an LSD rather than going for power upgrades, think I'll leave that till a fully mappable ECU is tried and tested, and go for that. A mappable unit should be able to obtain better gains than 1 or 2 HP !! As well as bringing the V-tec in at an earlier stage, I'd really be looking to play around with the settings myself and get an extra 10-12% of the cars overall power as a minimum, i.e 20-25 BHP regardless of a possible loss in economy figures.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 18th November 2008, 01:54
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRM View Post
I think with: Hondata ECU, GruppeM, Toda Manifold, Toda exhaust, RRC intake manifold and hondata gasket... 245/250bhp its possible... It would be very strong anyways.

Them a mappable ECU would improve on top of that.

But Before this i thing upgrading Suspension, brakes and a LSD are clever moves...

Sorry, but you can't go pass 230/235 hp without a mappable ECU (and cams). In the FN2 only a mappable ECU can tune the cams, ingn. and fuel necessary to this type of power (in the FD2 is diferent because it have +225HP stock and dont have a MAF sensor).
This is not like this: toda +15HP, hondata + 15HP, RRC + 10HP, gruppeM + 10HP. If you think that away you are going to have some
A 230 HP FN2 is a fast car. I have one.

Last edited by nunoctr; 18th November 2008 at 02:02.
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 18th November 2008, 02:02
 
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Originally Posted by Rafferj View Post
Hmm I'd prefer a mappable one for that sort of money considering the equivalent one on my last car was 400 and completely adjustable, including fuel settings and can be matched perfectly with an exhaust system. I was meaning with the software allowing you to map your own with that particular system, rather than having to then pay extra for someone else to do it for you after buying unit, thats just crazy !

No I haven't been about the Honda forums much incidentally, I've only just joined and haven't even taken possesion of the vehicle yet - not long now though

I agree that the LSD is an excellent mod for track use, fairly negligable difference for road use though...

Am now thinking I'll spend the money on suspension, FRS, and an LSD rather than going for power upgrades, think I'll leave that till a fully mappable ECU is tried and tested, and go for that. A mappable unit should be able to obtain better gains than 1 or 2 HP !! As well as bringing the V-tec in at an earlier stage, I'd really be looking to play around with the settings myself and get an extra 10-12% of the cars overall power as a minimum, i.e 20-25 BHP regardless of a possible loss in economy figures.
a mappable ECU is going to cost + 2000 pounds.... plus tuning.
don't know what was your last car but this car have a very dificult CAN protocol and DBW. So no one can do a stand alone ECU without the honda CAN codes... and honda don't give this codes!
Probably hondata is never going to release one, but if it will the price is going to be x 2 the hondata kpro price (there will be NO kpro but a diferent ECU).
So the options are the motecM400 or euro4 by EFI with the stock ECU (one runing the engine and one runing all other functions).

Last edited by nunoctr; 18th November 2008 at 02:07.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 18th November 2008, 09:54
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Trackday

If you are tuning your car just so you have a good track day tool, Sell the civic, buy a diesel for commuting then buy an Elise or a VX220 turbo or even a Evo 4 , for your play time on the tracks, they will be much more rewarding and you wont be throwing your hard earnd pennys away !!

you lot probs wont agree but thats what I would do

Last edited by Terry H; 18th November 2008 at 10:13.
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 18th November 2008, 11:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunoctr View Post
Sorry, but you can't go pass 230/235 hp without a mappable ECU (and cams). In the FN2 only a mappable ECU can tune the cams, ingn. and fuel necessary to this type of power (in the FD2 is diferent because it have +225HP stock and dont have a MAF sensor).
This is not like this: toda +15HP, hondata + 15HP, RRC + 10HP, gruppeM + 10HP. If you think that away you are going to have some
A 230 HP FN2 is a fast car. I have one.

Lukits car was very strong on stock ECU, i think he achived something over 240bhp...
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 18th November 2008, 11:30
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Lukits car was very strong on stock ECU, i think he achived something over 240bhp...
Oh, and with no Exhaust manifold!!!
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 18th November 2008, 11:55
 
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I have K20 engines in my cars since 2002. So I know what I am telling.
I had a car with kpro, cai, exhaust, manifold and mny more things.
But if you don't believe... try.
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 18th November 2008, 12:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunoctr View Post
I have K20 engines in my cars since 2002. So I know what I am telling.
I had a car with kpro, cai, exhaust, manifold and mny more things.
But if you don't believe... try.
Hey man, i'm not doubting you!
But i will try, you know my plans....
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 18th November 2008, 20:42 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Terry H View Post
If you are tuning your car just so you have a good track day tool, Sell the civic, buy a diesel for commuting then buy an Elise or a VX220 turbo or even a Evo 4 , for your play time on the tracks, they will be much more rewarding and you wont be throwing your hard earnd pennys away !!

you lot probs wont agree but thats what I would do

I'd agree with you if I was doing 10+ trackdays per season, but I'll prob only do 3 or 4 next summer so not serious enough to get a trailer and a 2nd car in all honesty.

Prefer to have a decent road car with one or two add ons and a FRS so that when I do feel like a trackday I can just turn up and drive And then drive home again afterwards having had a good time without taking it too seriously and spending days changing tyres and fiddling around with different setups etc. I don't have so much spare time anymore so would rather drive to and from the trackday and go on the track in the same car, but also know that the 2 or 3 mods I've done to it will improve the handling and power a bit so that I'm not all over the place and being lapped by XR2i's and the likes who are better set up !
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 19th November 2008, 06:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRM View Post
Lukits car was very strong on stock ECU, i think he achived something over 240bhp...
Lukits has MOTEC M400
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