Type R Tuning NA Vs Turbo conversion - Civinfo
 
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 12th November 2015, 21:19 Thread Starter
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Type R Tuning NA Vs Turbo conversion

Since the disappointment of the 9G Type R I've decided to keep the 8G and spend the difference on tuning it.

I've already decided on Tein with the EDFC, Stoptech and a few other things but I'm stuck with the engine.

I've been talking to TDI about a turbo conversion and it seems the best value way of getting a significant power increase however I'm torn as I can't make up my mind.

My dilemma is that it's basically going to completely change the way the car drives and that's going to change the feel of the car. I know I won't get as much power by spending the same money in NA tuning the engine but I think that might stay more truer to the type of the car?

Have any people got experience of NA tuning Vs Turbo in particular the driving, I'm not so bothered about figures if that makes sense
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 12th November 2015, 22:02
 
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if youve got 35k to spare no offence why not buy another car

I understand the love for the car and all that but the fact its cash youd never ever get back screams why bother to me

isnt 35k borderline Decent m3 money??

I know where my money would be headed sorry its kinda gone straight of topic just thought id put that into the mixer as well

Tim
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 12th November 2015, 22:10 Thread Starter
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I've considered that as well. I'm not planning to spend 35k on the car though, I think for less than half that I can get a very strong car.

You can pick up a decent M3 for 25k easily. It just doesn't interest me. I was also thinking about getting a Golf R but that doesn't excite me either. They'd be great cars but not what I like.

The car I have at the moment is immaculate. It's a 2011 and in pristine condition. Other than the fact it's a bit slow it's actually a great car.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 12th November 2015, 23:27
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I had an Ep3 a few years back. In between that I had various turbo charged cars, going back to N/A has been a no brainer for me. The engines in the other cars didn't have the drama of the k20. Now, a turbocharged k20 might be interesting. How about supercharged? I've driven a 325 bhp charged Aerial Atom, that had character
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 13th November 2015, 01:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richtea78 View Post
Since the disappointment of the 9G Type R I've decided to keep the 8G and spend the difference on tuning it.

I've already decided on Tein with the EDFC, Stoptech and a few other things but I'm stuck with the engine.

I've been talking to TDI about a turbo conversion and it seems the best value way of getting a significant power increase however I'm torn as I can't make up my mind.

My dilemma is that it's basically going to completely change the way the car drives and that's going to change the feel of the car. I know I won't get as much power by spending the same money in NA tuning the engine but I think that might stay more truer to the type of the car?

Have any people got experience of NA tuning Vs Turbo in particular the driving, I'm not so bothered about figures if that makes sense
If you're happy with every other aspect of your FN2 and still enjoy driving it, then a tdi north turbo conversion is a compromise IMO... I mean it's still far cheaper than buying a brand new one! It's kind of the decision I made, except i've bought a supercharger kit for mine.

I'm not sure how fast you were considering with an NA setup... 260-270bhp is not hugely expensive but if you want K24/300BHP then I believe it's much much more and into turbo territory as far as the price is concerned. Whilst 270bhp would be fun, personally I feel it would be too slow once i'm used to it.
Rotrex supercharging can get up to 400bhp with virtually the same power delivery as NA, so if that's truly what you want to maintain then that may be perfect for you. I have an aftercooled CT charger which, whilst somewhat linear power, it offers a lot more low down and mid range power/torque which is what I wanted personally. And there's the charger whine which was a big factor for me.
If you did go with the tdi north turbo kit, obviously the power delivery would be completely different, but in a good way. I cannot speak from experience but I really believe you'd be more than pleased with it, as it would be ridiculously fast and with boost by gear, very good drivability. If you sell up in a few years then you can expect to get 2-3 grand for the turbo kit second hand.

As you said, few cars can offer the same exicitement and value for money as an 8G type R so I can totally see where you're coming from
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 13th November 2015, 13:50
 
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Originally Posted by richtea78 View Post
I've considered that as well. I'm not planning to spend 35k on the car though, I think for less than half that I can get a very strong car.

You can pick up a decent M3 for 25k easily. It just doesn't interest me. I was also thinking about getting a Golf R but that doesn't excite me either. They'd be great cars but not what I like.

The car I have at the moment is immaculate. It's a 2011 and in pristine condition. Other than the fact it's a bit slow it's actually a great car.
totally understand but with spending 12k on the car (Engine modifications etc) you compromise the reliability and the car becomes less of a daily and more of a ill take it to a show or two

Why not buy an FN2 car thats already been modded etc then in a sense you wouldnt loose half as much money as doing it yourself
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 13th November 2015, 19:30
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Cant go wrong with a tdi north kit buddy. I had one but never fitted it :/ A friend now has it running at 400 horses and he is over the moon with it! Ive been out in it and it really does put the power down well. Turbo lag isn't noticeable at all as well! Saying that it is the older precision turbo over the new garret ones being used, which are apparently a little more mellow... If you can describe that sort of power melow! As a recommendation id look at changing the final drive to the longer ep3 one to help with traction. Also something mentioned to me was changing out the standard lsd you have fitted now for an aftermarket one.

Reliability wise the engines are safe to run 400 all day long and tdi would not run them at that power if it wasn't.

Im in a similar situation though to you now, high'ish end n/a build or turbo! If I were have a chat to some guys on here see if you can get a ride out in an existing turbo car, and then compare it to a high end n/a build. Thats best way to decide in my opinion mate
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 13th November 2015, 22:17
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I think the problem with your question is that it's a question most people will ask themselves and others but very rarely will you get someone who has went absolutely mental NA and then went for a turbo or supercharger as if you have went full NA, most parts wouldn't work as well with a forced induction set up, big cams, shorter final drive etc etc fantastic NA, but they don't really suit a turbo build as well

I'm building a K24/K20 frank just now, I guess I've made my choice...
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 13th November 2015, 23:00
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Love to see how you get on with a k24 are we talking more or less than a turbo conversion out of interest?
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 14th November 2015, 00:04
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Everyone has their personal preference and budget. Good luck with whatever route you take

Lot of people dont factor altering chassis or way car puts power down with big power and is a big cost itself.

There are companies out there that will get you 300bhp na from a k20 keepin 2000c or little more by stroking with near factory reliability/longevity but costly and can count them companies in a couple of fingers.

I love na builds but ultimately to get big power to compete with silly powered cars that come from factory now boost is required
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 14th November 2015, 19:51
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Love to see how you get on with a k24 are we talking more or less than a turbo conversion out of interest?

Probably more yeh, it's all the "other bits" that cost the most tbh mate, rack up well over a grand just on stuff you perhaps wouldn't think of straight away, on top of that you've got the big costs of the block, cams, labour to put it all together etc


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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 14th November 2015, 20:22
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Probably more yeh, it's all the "other bits" that cost the most tbh mate, rack up well over a grand just on stuff you perhaps wouldn't think of straight away, on top of that you've got the big costs of the block, cams, labour to put it all together etc


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Right I see! Which company are you using, ive been looking myself and I have only found one company? Problem I have is I don't have anything but a cat back currently, perfect for a turbo set up as everything is included in the kit, but not to go into a high end n/a build as id need a lot more breathing mods, running the total up even more! Spent far too much time and money on looks and now I've gone this far I cant stop really till its complete.

Seems like buying another motorbike is going to take priority at this rate
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 14th November 2015, 20:49 Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies

I'm very interested to here more about the hybrid K24. That sounds very interesting.

With regard to buying another already modified car, that doesn't appeal at all despite obviously being cheapest. It wouldn't be my car though, it wouldn't feel right. I realise that's completely irrational
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 14th November 2015, 23:04
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Im in a similiar boat, albiet whether to trade mines for a modified n/a or supercharged fn2.
Still like the looks and mostly evertything about the civic, bar the poor paint, but just want a bit more power.
Looked at alot of cars to swap to but have found most cars to be boring in comparison which makes a tuned type r the obvious choice. Either that or a dc5
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 15th November 2015, 01:00
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it's not just a bit more power though. going from a 240bhp to 350-400 is gonna be quite a transformation!
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 15th November 2015, 13:07
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There's a CT charged FN2 ending on EBay today. big spec and 350bhp if anyone is interested
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 15th November 2015, 15:31
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I have been running my tdi north turbo converted fn2 as a daily for almost a year now, it is very reliable! Went from 250 NA with cams to turbo, no regrets, get it done!
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 15th November 2015, 20:43 Thread Starter
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I have been running my tdi north turbo converted fn2 as a daily for almost a year now, it is very reliable! Went from 250 NA with cams to turbo, no regrets, get it done!
What's it like to live with day to day?

Would be good to hear your thoughts please. Any pics of the work?
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 16th November 2015, 01:08
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This is what the engine bay looks like when finished. I have a milltek exhaust and it is relatively quiet for the day to day stuff, the only thing I find a bit annoying is the clutch, you have to rev it a bit to get going, otherwise the whole car just jerks, not too bad though, as soon as you pull away it feels the same. Fuel gauge will not work properly with the turbo conversion, but it settles after a while, you sort of find the new empty, for the first few weeks just fill up every 200 miles. Uses a bit of oil every few thousand miles, within normal consumption. Daily commute is definitely more economical than when I was NA tuned, I don't have to rev as high to get up to speed, overtake can be done very easily even before vtec, just a quicker fn2 when driving normally. That's about it with the day to day stuff.
of course if you are in the mood for it, it is properly FAST!
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 16th November 2015, 07:51
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Originally Posted by james.llewellyn View Post
Right I see! Which company are you using, ive been looking myself and I have only found one company? Problem I have is I don't have anything but a cat back currently, perfect for a turbo set up as everything is included in the kit, but not to go into a high end n/a build as id need a lot more breathing mods, running the total up even more! Spent far too much time and money on looks and now I've gone this far I cant stop really till its complete.

Seems like buying another motorbike is going to take priority at this rate
I think at the stage your at, a turbo "kit" build is the best option, it'd certainly be cheaper than getting big NA power

My friends Andrew & Matt at Automek here in Glasgow are putting it all together for me, the block was built by Mike @ Laskey Racing in California, tbh thd turbo build is a lot easier as the boys at TDI North have done all the R&D etc, they supply everything you need and fit it for you, I had to do all the research myself, source and order all the parts etc etc it can be quite a bit of effort to do everything properly

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Originally Posted by richtea78 View Post
Thanks for all the replies

I'm very interested to here more about the hybrid K24. That sounds very interesting.

With regard to buying another already modified car, that doesn't appeal at all despite obviously being cheapest. It wouldn't be my car though, it wouldn't feel right. I realise that's completely irrational
What else do you want to know about a K24 build mate? Pm me if you like or have a look at my build thread
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