FN2 power mods - Civinfo
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 21st June 2017, 22:42 Thread Starter
 
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FN2 power mods

Hi,

I need some help from you guys. I am triing to reach 250 bhp NA with my 2010 FN2 but my 1.5 years old son won't give me enough time to read all those 60-80 pages for each build thread in here so if you think you can clear some things for me i would much apreciate it.

So...my setup so far is:

- CPL Race exhaust manifold
- Tegiwa intake tract with OEM airbox and air filter (no fog light)
- FD2 oil pump with clockwise motion baffle sump
- Hondata Flashpro

So far, at the dyno test i had 220 bhp. What should i do from this point?

- RRC obviously but which one? the standard one or the 70 mm ported one from tegiwa?
- TB - i was thinking J35 but i have seen there is a J37 also...don't know much about that one. I is ok for daily/road use?
- some drop in cams because i don't want to invest so much more in valve springs and god knows what else. was thinking at FD2 ones but not sure. Any other choice besides TDI stage one as i am not from UK and last time i read about these cams, TDI only install them in their shop...so no chance for me.


Now i know a lot of you use a catback and some cold air intake system but not sure about these two mods. I mean ...do i really need another CAI instead of what i have now? Do you think the CPL CAI will give me more power than the setup i have now? About the catback? Same question - will i get more power with a different catback? What about the back pressure? Was under the impresion that NA engines need some back pressure?

That's about it so far. I will say that the car is used on the road but not daily and for some track days or in the local time attack championship. So definetly need the power for the championship but will come in handy on the road too.

Again any help is much apreciated.

Thanks
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 21st June 2017, 22:59
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Cams, cai would help. Surprised your only at 220 with your current mods
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 21st June 2017, 23:10
250bhp.... finally :)
 
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250 isn't easy nor cheap to reach, especially as our engines get older.

Here's a basic run down.

Intake:
Tegiwa or Mugen intake will be your best bet, with the tract and fog scoops. Gives best throttle response and good for up to and over 250bhp.

The best performing will be CPL CAI or even better skunk2 / hybrid racing. Page 56 of my build thread shows the difference a simple intake swap can do (went from Teg - HR). Gave plenty of mid range but sacrificed the crisper low down throttle response.

I highly doubt the OEM box even gutted out can offer aftermarket cams enough air but worth a try if on a budget.

Throttle Body:
FD2 / Mugen are best, OEM quality and bolt straight onto the RRC. Spoon may give better results as it's huge on the intake side but are expensive. Skunk2 were known to have some issues but may be sorted.

Avoid J35 / J37, there were reports of them blowing ECUs as they drew too much current. Can be researched on K20a.org / Hondata iirc

Inlet:
RRC or RBC have similar gains with RRC being slightly better but not by much. Gives mid range and lots of top end over 7k. 70mm isn't needed unless you plan to get a S2 TB. RBC require spacers / gaskets to block the IACV.

Tegiwa / hondata gasket is worth having as they reduce heatsoak a fair bit, inlet manifold is noticeably cooler to touch.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 21st June 2017, 23:12 Thread Starter
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but which cams?

with cpl CAI there is the hussle when you need to change or clean the filter and then there is the water issue..so not sure if is worth it
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 21st June 2017, 23:21 Thread Starter
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didn't know anything about the problems with J35/J37 TB's...will look into.

Tegiwa or mugen intake is basically the same as i have now ...only the air filter is a K&N one. Is the carbon airbox so much different/bigger in volume than the OEM one? Because i was under the impresion they use the same air filter/panel as i could use in my OEM airbox...

And cams...are FD2 cams any good or worth the money?
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 21st June 2017, 23:26
250bhp.... finally :)
 
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Cams:
TDi do a standard stage 2 DIC these days. They give better low and high cam performance over most other DIC. Iirc they do supply just the cams now at around £950. Highly recommended as they do perform superb, skunk2 do a DIC but I wouldn't fit without at least an uprated chain tensioner, that goes for any cam upgrade. TDi's should be OK on stock one but I still opted to be safe and replaced the whole lot.

Whilst in there it's worth doing valve springs to rev to 9k as you have the FD2 pump. May gain more power if you opt for a huge cai and 3" exhaust. I didn't bother as cost to gains just weren't worth it.

Toda A3 cams offer better performance but require the uprated springs and tensioner.

FD2 cams are also good but peak at around 245.

FD2 pump you've already done.

Exhaust:
CPL manifold should see you just fine up to and over 250bhp. It apparently has good top end but loses out slightly for mid-range compared to Toda / Teg, wouldn't change it personally.

Exhaust is the big one, K20s love a big 3" single exit. Every single graph I've seen shows 3" on top even on stock cams. TDi's 3" is the one I'd go for, I went solid fabs as I got a good deal. If I was buying new however it would be TDi's. Warning, they are loud and droney!

Failing that a decent 2.5" (single exit would be better) will do fine, they are easier to live with day-day and may still net you close or around 250.

Head:
Not required and rather expensive but port and polishing the head along with raising the compression ratio gives some gains but you need decent fuel for the CR and the cost for gains is slim.
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Last edited by musegroove; 21st June 2017 at 23:34. Reason: Spelling
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 21st June 2017, 23:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phara View Post
didn't know anything about the problems with J35/J37 TB's...will look into.

Tegiwa or mugen intake is basically the same as i have now ...only the air filter is a K&N one. Is the carbon airbox so much different/bigger in volume than the OEM one? Because i was under the impresion they use the same air filter/panel as i could use in my OEM airbox...

And cams...are FD2 cams any good or worth the money?
FD2 cams peak around 245 and I wouldn't go through the effort of a couple of grands worth of mods to save a couple hundred on a decent proven intake to help them breath. Smoothing the intake helps but as far as I'm aware Teg and Mugen flow more volume still.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 21st June 2017, 23:58 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musegroove View Post
Cams:
TDi do a standard stage 2 DIC these days. They give better low and high cam performance over most other DIC. Iirc they do supply just the cams now at around £950. Highly recommended as they do perform superb, skunk2 do a DIC but I wouldn't fit without at least an uprated chain tensioner, that goes for any cam upgrade. TDi's should be OK on stock one but I still opted to be safe and replaced the whole lot.

Whilst in there it's worth doing valve springs to rev to 9k as you have the FD2 pump. May gain more power if you opt for a huge cai and 3" exhaust. I didn't bother as cost to gains just weren't worth it.

Toda A3 cams offer better performance but require the uprated springs and tensioner.

FD2 cams are also good but peak at around 245.

FD2 pump you've already done.

Exhaust:
CPL manifold should see you just fine up to and over 250bhp. It apparently has good top end but loses out slightly for mid-range compared to Toda / Teg, wouldn't change it personally.

Exhaust is the big one, K20s love a big 3" single exit. Every single graph I've seen shows 3" on top even on stock cams. TDi's 3" is the one I'd go for, I went solid fabs as I got a good deal. If I was buying new however it would be TDi's. Warning, they are loud and droney!

Failing that a decent 2.5" (single exit would be better) will do fine, they are easier to live with day-day and may still net you close or around 250.

Head:
Not required and rather expensive but port and polishing the head along with raising the compression ratio gives some gains but you need decent fuel for the CR and the cost for gains is slim.

What chain tensioner did you use?

3" exhaust will be ok with CPL manifold? i think CPL is 2.5' or narrower at the end...
but anyway i think it would be way too loud for me...tempted to go for a 2.5" only because of the noise...single exit ofcourse ...is tegiwa catback good? or if you have any other sugestion...

do you have a link to your exact CAI? it is the one for the SI model?
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 22nd June 2017, 00:30
250bhp.... finally :)
 
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I used stock tensioner as TDi's cams aren't as aggressive as others.

Most manifolds have 2.5" collectors as it apparently helps keep torque up. My 3" has a 2.5" - 3" taper but any 2.5 / 3" will be fine.

Tegiwa are good but heard of a few cracked welds, I'd personally go custom if staying 2.5" single exit.

Intake is here:
Hybrid Racing Cold Air Intake System Hybrid Racing

Takes some jiggling to fit and moving the battery etc
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 22nd June 2017, 11:04 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musegroove View Post
Cams:
TDi's should be OK on stock one but I still opted to be safe and replaced the whole lot.
i thought you did...at least that is what i understood from that
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 25th June 2017, 01:24 Thread Starter
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OEM FD2 TB part number is 16400-RRC-003...is this correct?
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 25th June 2017, 08:04
250bhp.... finally :)
 
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That's right.

The visible markings on the TB itself also say GMD1A and RRC0
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 5th July 2017, 22:04 Thread Starter
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Have you seen this video? This guy keeps telling if you change cams on a K-series engine you can expect a lot of reliability issues. Is that the case or he is exagerating?

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 5th July 2017, 22:12
250bhp.... finally :)
 
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Jeff gives sound advice, followed his stuff for a while. With aftermarket cams you need to uprate the chain tensioner. Loxy had a close call back in the day with the skunk2 cams.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 5th July 2017, 22:19 Thread Starter
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So after all there is no trully DIC? Not even with the actual TDI stage 2 cams?

So how come you are still using the stock one?
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 5th July 2017, 22:40
250bhp.... finally :)
 
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OEM (FD2 / DC5 etc) Spoon and TDi are the ones that are OK with stock tensioner iirc as they aren't as aggressive.

It's the aggressive ramp that apparently kills them.
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