Supercharging... - Civinfo
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 29th May 2018, 13:38 Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Supercharging...

So i am considering supercharging my Champ White and have spent time reading numerous threads etc but the majority seem to be a fair few years old.
Looking around theres the 2 main choices of the eaton style or Rotrex still being the popular.

Have read the Rotrex have better output but need reving, were prone to failure, but this apparently has been resolved on new units?
The eaton is the torque option for more low down pull but less top end.

Which is what i have gathered from old threads. Is that still as it stands?
Turbo is none option as at £8k just for the kit is too much .

I have champ white so fitted with LSD as standard and i know i need to factor in clutch minimum .

Currently have Miltek cat back, hks induction and grooved discs with yellowstuff pads 👍
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 29th May 2018, 14:22
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@Typersam1 is in Brizzle running the Rotrex, should have some good advice for you I'm sure.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 29th May 2018, 14:59
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To be honest with all the outlay to get the most from this and then the hassle with insurance I would say just go buy an FK2 as for sure by the time you have done the brakes, mapping and everything to go with the supercharger or Turbo my guess is pound for pound you wont have spent much more for the FK2 (assuming you factor in deposit from your car) and you have a car worth more money
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 29th May 2018, 15:16
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Fair point there by Rick.. I recall back in the 90's, VTS Saxo's with the Rotrex unit.. Great torque and power delivery from a relatively compact unit.. from my own experience, getting good tension on the pulley to avoid slip was a fair task in itself.. The roots is a bulkier S/C, and are serviceable so you can replace the oil on the bearings to prolong the life... The teflon coated rotors also add efficiency - but it requires really good air filtration!
More air also means more fueling requirements, so you would have to upgrade your injectors and then manage the fueling with an programmable ECU or piggy back unit. More heat, then you will need to upgrade your cooling system - pump, rads - oil coolers to help.. Either that or carry on and potentially reduce the life of your engine considerably..
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 29th May 2018, 16:27 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickHondaR View Post
To be honest with all the outlay to get the most from this and then the hassle with insurance I would say just go buy an FK2 as for sure by the time you have done the brakes, mapping and everything to go with the supercharger or Turbo my guess is pound for pound you wont have spent much more for the FK2 (assuming you factor in deposit from your car) and you have a car worth more money
Fk2s were looked at but still circa £18k . So say maybe get £6k as trade so still a £12k .
As an approx would guess the charger would be £5k or so less.
I am looking at other options, like buying a 200sx as second car, Or Gt86 but same as the civic it needs bolt ons for power. Just need more oomph in my life. 😁👍.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgo8 View Post
Fair point there by Rick.. I recall back in the 90's, VTS Saxo's with the Rotrex unit.. Great torque and power delivery from a relatively compact unit.. from my own experience, getting good tension on the pulley to avoid slip was a fair task in itself.. The roots is a bulkier S/C, and are serviceable so you can replace the oil on the bearings to prolong the life... The teflon coated rotors also add efficiency - but it requires really good air filtration!
More air also means more fueling requirements, so you would have to upgrade your injectors and then manage the fueling with an programmable ECU or piggy back unit. More heat, then you will need to upgrade your cooling system - pump, rads - oil coolers to help.. Either that or carry on and potentially reduce the life of your engine considerably..
All good points 👍.
Some of the kits come with injectors etc within the one price. Saying that ive looked at numerous sites and cannot remember which ones 🤪.

Do agree it can spiral and quite quickly.

Maybe missed the boat on upgrading it 😂
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 30th May 2018, 07:49
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I'm toying with the same idea, and have also looked at going down the road of buying an FK2 which is not affordable (well to me anyway), as you say there is a shortfall of over 10K once all the mods are done and charger fitted. To me, if you want big power out of your car and want to keep the FN2 which many do so end up spending thousands to get more power, then a charger is the a good option cost wise. But figure in a good exhaust, header, CAI and LSD to be able to use the power. Then you have to stop it
I spoke with Paul at TDi-North about this and he recommended that you go for a charger with an inter-cooler and also have a decat header (4-2-1) with a 400 cel cat welded into the zort B pipe as the original cat tends to get destryed after time..
Reading on TTS web site, their kits (both inter-cooled and none) use the original pump and injectors (none IC sue original air box too), they say their none inter-cooler kit can also use the standard exhaust and cat with a gain of 100-bhp at the wheels which is impressive. The inter-cooler kits offer in between 300-450 BHP dependant on tune, at the the wheels (total, not extra).

It all depends on what you want and can afford, if you have the money go for a FK2, as like me who can't afford one. Then saving £5-6K and do as much of the fitting yourself if you can and you have a FK2 power equivalent car (not as good admittedly spec wise etc etc) for over £7k less then a second-hand FK2 (ATM), but most I see in Brum are going for 21-22K so that's £10-11K less making it more affordable for a powerful, FK2/S3 equivalent car. Plus a car you built yourself . Modding these cars is a hobby too for most so going and buying an FK2 out of the box is not an option and then the modding of that starts and it never ends lol.

Good luck, keep us posted how you get on.

FYI - to insure an FK2 - sale price £21K is £30 a year cheaper to insure than my Modded FN2. Not sure how much extra an Super charged FN2 will be over what I pay now though. may make a call later out of interest.

Cheers
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Last edited by Bones126; 30th May 2018 at 08:19. Reason: Insurance
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 30th May 2018, 08:23
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Sure if you do install, we'll all be here to support.
Could also use a water cooled intercooler system which helps bring down the inlet temps, as a S/C is known for raising these. That's great straight forward. On old builds it was a lil bit of plumbing, a header tank, built in water pump with 12v supply and made a massive difference..
If your build is done right, and youbdont drive everywhere like a bat outta he'll, it can also still be reliable. From my past, you won't make any money on mods like this so when it comes to resale, the money spent on S/C will evaporate..
But if you intend on keeping her for a while as a weekend toy smile factor, giggles, and not a daily runner it'll be a worthy investment. Also.. check insurance.. some people won't touch it..
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 30th May 2018, 10:37
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My issue I also is that I use the car as a daily, and supercharging it will increase costs all round. Love the FN2, love the FK2 as well but bought the FN2 as a bit of a hobby and car to mess with to keep me occupied in my spare time.

I think if I was to do this I would be going for the supersport TTS version wither the inter cooler and race rad - https://www.tts-performance.co.uk/si...2---SUPERSPORT
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 30th May 2018, 11:22
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That's alot of kit for £3.6K, so can see the appeal!
Still would increase water cooling capacity - upgrade water pump and rad size if possible..
Also, brake upgrade.. Defo need a decent brake set up to stop ya..
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 30th May 2018, 12:50
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Yeah, defo will need better brakes!
It does look a good bit of kit tbh, price is right for bang for buck. Just the other extras that will probably double the cost if not already on the car. On the other hand, if you already have an lsd and better brakes. Winner winner.

The jury is out, may be for a while too lol.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 30th May 2018, 12:53
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Out of interest (sorry to go off topic) have you watched on Netflix a series called Fastest Car? Puts sleepers against supercars in 4 way drags to a 7 car drag off, if doing this as a hobby and looking at modding, what we are talking here is pennies and gives inspiration.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 30th May 2018, 20:47 Thread Starter
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Why these forums are good as get advice, information and experiences both good and bad.

Still looking at all the options and routes inc other cars but unless its an Sx or the like there isnt much peaking the interest.

Decisions decisions 😂
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 31st May 2018, 09:56
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Looks for a second hand rotrex kit you can probably pick one up for sub 2k.


I just got a rotrex and been looking at insurance for my FN2, if you go with a modified car policy/ company then you would be looking at about £550 for the year depending on your age, I'm 28.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 31st May 2018, 12:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegMan View Post
Looks for a second hand rotrex kit you can probably pick one up for sub 2k.


I just got a rotrex and been looking at insurance for my FN2, if you go with a modified car policy/ company then you would be looking at about £550 for the year depending on your age, I'm 28.
Encouraging price with the Insurance, I'm 51 (yes, still a kid at heart) so would hope it would be in the same region. Living in Birmingham will be my issue and the use it will get.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 31st May 2018, 15:34
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Encouraging price with the Insurance, I'm 51 (yes, still a kid at heart) so would hope it would be in the same region. Living in Birmingham will be my issue and the use it will get.
I was speaking to a guy in his late 40's on facebook and he said that that his insurance was around £400 for his supercharged fn2.
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I'm in the middle of doing mine atm, from my experience i'd say go for an intercooled one first time round, I went the non intercooled one first and have had a few issues.


Intake Air temps are high at the moment, and as it didn't come with an upgraded map sensor it was only able to be mapped to 6500rpm as it was hitting the limit of the oem map sensor by then.


Currently have an intercooler/rad on order and waiting for it as well as a full exhaust to replace the oem one as it is too restrictive along with the 4-bar map and an uprated fuel pump (didnt want to hit an issue there after too), I've also got an engine oil cooler on the way to help keep temps down.



hoping it will all finally be complete in a few more weeks time once the bits come in, and will then be able to report on how it is, atm it's just frustrating having it installed but limited as it makes barely any more power than when N/A like this, can feel the better tourque though so it's not all bad.


Also you will from time to time think of your car as a money pit, but f-it no point taking it with you so might as well have a fast car while you can... if I was to have the option to go back and decide to do it again or not, i probably still would, but would have made sure I had the intercooled version first time round and a new exhaust as the way I have done it is costing me much more labour/mapping time than I would have liked, also as i think about all the money I have spent on other mods before doing the charger I probably would be pretty close to FK2 money, but hey anyone can buy one of those off the shelf, a supercharged FN2 is definately rarer


so in summary ....... do it!
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 31st May 2018, 17:38
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Nice one, thanks for you input from experience. Very valuable info.
Please keep us updated on how things go.

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by cb42 View Post
I'm in the middle of doing mine atm, from my experience i'd say go for an intercooled one first time round, I went the non intercooled one first and have had a few issues.


Intake Air temps are high at the moment, and as it didn't come with an upgraded map sensor it was only able to be mapped to 6500rpm as it was hitting the limit of the oem map sensor by then.


Currently have an intercooler/rad on order and waiting for it as well as a full exhaust to replace the oem one as it is too restrictive along with the 4-bar map and an uprated fuel pump (didnt want to hit an issue there after too), I've also got an engine oil cooler on the way to help keep temps down.



hoping it will all finally be complete in a few more weeks time once the bits come in, and will then be able to report on how it is, atm it's just frustrating having it installed but limited as it makes barely any more power than when N/A like this, can feel the better tourque though so it's not all bad.


Also you will from time to time think of your car as a money pit, but f-it no point taking it with you so might as well have a fast car while you can... if I was to have the option to go back and decide to do it again or not, i probably still would, but would have made sure I had the intercooled version first time round and a new exhaust as the way I have done it is costing me much more labour/mapping time than I would have liked, also as i think about all the money I have spent on other mods before doing the charger I probably would be pretty close to FK2 money, but hey anyone can buy one of those off the shelf, a supercharged FN2 is definately rarer


so in summary ....... do it!
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 2nd June 2018, 05:11
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Rotrex supercharger is fantasic mate, works well
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