Another, is the older information on here still valid question? Intakes and TBs - Civinfo
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 5th February 2019, 16:03 Thread Starter
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Another, is the older information on here still valid question? Intakes and TBs

Hi guys,

I've been going back through some older, and older threads about intakes and throttle bodies (including J37s that took out ECUs, and didn't fit but actually did with a new gaskget and swapping internals from the original), so:

Is the RRC still king of the hill, matched to either an FD2 TB or 70mm equivalent? Where's the best place to get an RRC?
Is the Skunk 2 an OK intake, just requires a catch can (someones offered me one) with a J37 is all, on the expensive side mind.

TDi still the master of the drop in cam, of are FD2s (I take it all the JP Type R engines use the same cams)?

Now the bit that confuses me the most - which SC kit uses existing intakes etc and which one uses its own? Which is preferred?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 5th February 2019, 19:21
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Old info is defo still valid. Lots of people want to "do something different, bro" or "try something new, like" but the tried and tested is exactly that. TDI cams are good and will net a few more BHP than the FD2 ones. But they're not exactly cheap new and I got my FD ones for 300 on eBay. The Skunk2 is a good intake but requires some bodging to fit. There are other intakes people use which are similar and easier to fit. I got my RRC from CPL Racing and matched it with a FD2 TB. There are bigger TBs out there like Spoon but again they're expensive. I'd recommend going through old build threads like Pigdog and Loxy. It's a goldmine of info.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 5th February 2019, 20:44 Thread Starter
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Cheers for the info, I'm slowly getting through things, but it does take an age and when some of the info is 8 years old I often wonder, all of the M2 branded stuff that's appeared from intakes to exhausts for example, yet hardly anything on here.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 6th February 2019, 19:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stimcity View Post
Cheers for the info, I'm slowly getting through things, but it does take an age and when some of the info is 8 years old I often wonder, all of the M2 branded stuff that's appeared from intakes to exhausts for example, yet hardly anything on here.
I've not heard of M2 stuff. Maybe I'm getting old! This forum isn't as busy as it was a few years back - Facebook seems more the thing now for a lot of people. Maybe ask there?
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 6th February 2019, 19:28
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No, the forum activity has declined a lot since Verticalscope took over the admin side.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 7th February 2019, 08:35
250bhp.... finally :)
 
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Old info is still valid:
RRC is still extremely good, skunk2 / m2 are up there for performance too but nothing beats OEM quality. The metal quality of some skunk2's were shocking.

For a TB you have FD2 > Mugen > Spoon with all three being rare and/or VERY expensive. The rest came with their set of sealing, sticking, configuration issues etc

Newer cams have come out since the old info like skunk2's drop ins now actually being drop in without destroying your chain tensioner / needing valve springs. Again, quality was hit & miss so I decided to stick with TDi North with zero issues. You have Toda A3 or clockwise cams which I'd choose over mine but require valve springs and a stronger tensioner. TDi's final "ultimate" cams are pricey but seem the best for a daily / track car on a "budget" as valve springs and porting is big money.

OEM cams like FD2 aren't worth the minor upgrade unless picked up dirt cheap, you'll see gains but they shine more on slightly higher CR and bested by TDi's with the only benefit being price.

Skunk2 / Hybrid Racing intakes are only best once you hit cams, before that HKS / GruppeM / CPL / Tegiwa etc will all perform near identical. They don't require a catch can. HR is easier to fit and doesn't have the common issue of the MAF housing splitting.
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Last edited by musegroove; 7th February 2019 at 08:38.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 7th February 2019, 12:09 Thread Starter
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Cheers Muse,

I've already got a CPL CAI so (in my head) my next steps are:

FD2 Intake
FD2 / Or equivalent TB, does the size output really make a difference? The grams one is 72/80! I see Tegiwa do their own one now at 70mm too for example.

Then drop in cams and oil pump + sump baffle at the same time. TDi still the way to go for cams or cheap set of original RRC if they fall into my lap.

Cheers all,

Jamie.

Last edited by stimcity; 7th February 2019 at 15:50.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 7th February 2019, 17:40 Thread Starter
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Can anyone recommend anywhere in the Leeds area that could port the RRC to 70mm? It's not a job a fancy with a dremel...
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 7th February 2019, 17:58
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Excellent info below from Musegroove. I'd just add that I saw 251.9BHP on tdi's dyno with FD2 cams and the usual supporting mods - so they can perform well (within a few BHP of far more expensive parts).

Quote:
Originally Posted by musegroove View Post
Old info is still valid:
RRC is still extremely good, skunk2 / m2 are up there for performance too but nothing beats OEM quality. The metal quality of some skunk2's were shocking.

For a TB you have FD2 > Mugen > Spoon with all three being rare and/or VERY expensive. The rest came with their set of sealing, sticking, configuration issues etc

Newer cams have come out since the old info like skunk2's drop ins now actually being drop in without destroying your chain tensioner / needing valve springs. Again, quality was hit & miss so I decided to stick with TDi North with zero issues. You have Toda A3 or clockwise cams which I'd choose over mine but require valve springs and a stronger tensioner. TDi's final "ultimate" cams are pricey but seem the best for a daily / track car on a "budget" as valve springs and porting is big money.

OEM cams like FD2 aren't worth the minor upgrade unless picked up dirt cheap, you'll see gains but they shine more on slightly higher CR and bested by TDi's with the only benefit being price.

Skunk2 / Hybrid Racing intakes are only best once you hit cams, before that HKS / GruppeM / CPL / Tegiwa etc will all perform near identical. They don't require a catch can. HR is easier to fit and doesn't have the common issue of the MAF housing splitting.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 7th February 2019, 22:08
250bhp.... finally :)
 
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A bigger TB may actually lose you some driveability over a horsepower or so at best. As with intakes you will only see the benefit of a big, big TB with aggressive cams and certainly porting the intake & head minimum.

Below that I'd stick with FD2 / Mugen as Spoon is
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 24th February 2019, 16:36 Thread Starter
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Talking

I've been continuing to read up on this including Stoney's thread and looking at the US threads just makes my head implode for their love for our RSPs.

So really as Muse says, RRC > RBC > M2 (apparently the second version is improved) > consider Skunk if it's new. Only the RRC / RBC and expensive Skunks seem to make a difference and then it's minimal (up to 10-12BHP depending on setup). If my understanding is correct, the RRC will give more than the RBC but only when considerably up the rev range whereas the RBC and RRC will be on a par in the mid range and into VTEC (which for my driving style is ideal).

I'm currently thinking of a ported RBC and using the extra towards either an H-Tune or S2 TB in advance of getting the cams done. Nowhere closer to any recent cam information (although thanks to you both for your information!) so it would seem save a small amount and go for FD2 cams or TDis.

TB wise I'm looking at the H-Tune + silicone drop down to fit nicely to my CPL intake.

Reason I'm still looking around is I've decided to finally get the oil balance delete kit done, so that and cams make sense and I'll do the intake and tb before.

All open to change if a deal comes up of course!
@musegroove the reason for going with the TB early is that I may upgrade the injectors after all the above has settled down.
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