Is custom map really that much better than Group N? - Civinfo
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 29th March 2019, 22:28 Thread Starter
 
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Is custom map really that much better than Group N?

Ok, so i'm running HKS RSK, Milltek non res and flashpro with Group N map. Got this set up for two years now, extremally happy with it, but i wanted to change something recently as i get bored Initially i wanted to change intake for quieter one, just to have different driving experience, but then i find out this would cost me 400 quid to buy Tegiwa... so... it's around same price as custom map... or manifold with welded in to B-pipe 400 cell cat.


Changing intake now is not an option, as this would change only noise and nothing else.


Custom map would cost from 350-500 (depending how long it would take i imagine) and seeing graphs in internet with just intake, exhaust and custom map it looks like you gaining only 6 bhp and around same Nm of torque over Groupe N... is it really worth it??? I know people say car is smoother, but looking at the graphs it's same curve, just 6 bhp higher... what you think?


Manifold on other hand would apparently give more torque mid range, but how much louder it would be? I'm doing 3000 mile motorway trip through the Europe once a year, and noise wise milltek with HKS is brillant, as its loud when giving a beans, and nice and quiet when cruising with 4000 rev on motorway.


What do you guys think - having around 500 quid to spend - what's better option?

Last edited by Mr_Frog; 30th March 2019 at 00:18.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 30th March 2019, 14:08
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I presume this is on s fn2 , the hondadata group n map only really changes your car minimally. A full custom map done somewhere like eurospec in Guildford will totally transform your car !! Will cost you about £450ish all in but you won’t regret it . I had mine done there about a year ago
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 30th March 2019, 21:14
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Yes, a custom map makes a lot of difference. Especially mid range which the N misses.
I had one with only a Gruppe M on and the difference from the N to the custom was very noticeable and big improvement.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 31st March 2019, 19:11 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mu02gen View Post
I presume this is on s fn2 , the hondadata group n map only really changes your car minimally. A full custom map done somewhere like eurospec in Guildford will totally transform your car !! Will cost you about £450ish all in but you won’t regret it . I had mine done there about a year ago

Are Eurospec still in business? Was trying to contact them on number from their website, but all i got is "incorrect number"... Then i Called TGM Sport Racing and woman who picked up didn't know the answers and gave me telephone number to one of the mechanics, tried three times and no one was picking up... Shame, as this is relativelly close. Will have to drive to TDI south.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 2nd April 2019, 22:17 Thread Starter
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So custom map done at TDI plc.
First off - they didn't do a power run at the beginning, so completelly no clue what is the improvement, if any...
Second - they didn't give me a file with calibration, didn't even left it on the flashpro - i have send them an email asking for it.
Slightly dissapointed, as i paid 400 and haven't been told a lot... feels like dropping a car for oil change, i had to ask questions and they were answered in shortest possible way without any details.



Now about map itself.
Vtec has been moved from 3800 to 4800 and car despite pulling feels less responsive on lower cam - it pulls but throttle reaction is a bit sluggish.

On Vtec it pulls slightly more, but in my opinion it doesn't justify loss of responsiveness on low revs.
Car accelerate smoother - feels more like good running series car instead of savage rally car - in my opinion it runs more like EP3 now (nothing low and faster on Vtec) while FN2 on N-group map was a bit of animal - OK - maybe slightly slower at higher speeds but so much more responsive low and midrange.



All in all - car feels more powerfull now, with even power line without flat spots and even torque, but... lost it's TypeR'ism - i won't be racing on the track to catch seconds, i need a fun, and if i will be driving back in my country on twisty mountain roads i will be switching back to N-group as Vtec at 3800 was perfect for those situations in slower corners.


Would i spend 400 quid knowing what i know now? NO.


To top it out my alternator and auxliary belt pulley died during dyno
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 3rd April 2019, 12:52
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My car was done at eurospec and it pulls like a freight train in every gear . Now it’s very quick !
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 4th April 2019, 15:45 Thread Starter
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Mine also pulls like a diesel on lower revs, and its probbably faster than on N-group map, but it's less fun and interestingly - HKS RSK is quieter.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 6th April 2019, 00:00
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There are some tweaks you can do to the group N map on flashpro, like using density tables for fueling and adjusting the engagement pressure that makes it better to drive.

I had the Group N Ecu for years, was completely different from the flashpro version when I installed it when swapping to flashpro.

I would bin the hks off and go for a closed box... but that's just me and definitely fit a header and exhaust (put a cat in the exhaust) then map it, makes the midrange much better.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 6th April 2019, 01:10 Thread Starter
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Was just about to say - using wifi ODB and dataloging software afer checking intake temperature i'm well imprressed with HKS - while outside temperature was about 9 degrees my intake temp after thrashing session was 17 degrees during driving and 26 during slow crawling in traffic - compared to K&N on my mate's E46 (with what appears to be decent shield) 47 degrees!
I don't think heat soak in UK with average summer temperatures between 23-26 would be an issue.


I have tweaked my N-group map as well, but was expecting custom map to be similar in case of Vtec crossovers (3800) and give little bit more power, but with crossover at 4800 i cannot make up my mind if i like it... I do like additional torque on lower cam, but don't like longer waiting time to crossover and quieter vtec. Car feels smoother, but since biggest difference is in midrange - your higher revs are not so impressive anymore.

Good thing is - i can always change my map to suit what i like or when i get bored with one
Love this car
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