Gearbox Issue (Under warranty) - Civinfo
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 6th September 2019, 18:35 Thread Starter
 
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Angry Gearbox Issue (Under warranty)

Hi all,

First off, I'd like to say, I'm very new to this forum! I apologise profusely for the extremely long post but I'm just so angry about this. I also have no idea if I have posted in the right section but here goes:

I live in the UK, in Birmingham. I own a 2018 Honda Civic Type R GT that I purchased brand new from Listers Honda Solihull in December 2018. I have the vehicle on PCP. The vehicle's cash price was 35,500 and I pay nearly 500 a month for it.

Recently, I had a gearbox issue where I couldn't select into 1st gear or I had difficulty selecting the gear. As I work for the AA, I had one of their engineers come out to the car to take a look at it as at the time I noticed the issue, I was only a few hundred yards away from my driveway so I pulled off in 2nd and parked it up. The AA engineer originally thought that it could be something to do with the gear cables and they would need adjusting as we found that selecting 1st would only be a problem after selecting 2nd gear. If I were to go through the gears without selecting 2nd, I could easily go back into 1st without any problems, but as soon as I selected 2nd, I wouldn't be able to select 1st very easy again until I had moved the gears into 3rd and 4th a few times. The AA engineer could not further investigate the issue properly as the engine was too warm at the time so he advised I call Honda Assistance the next day (who just so happen to be through the AA).

I had the Honda Assistance engineer out the next day and he took away some parts of the engine but still couldn't fully diagnose the problem as the Type R has a very compact engine unit but he seemed to think also it could be to do with the gear cables or even a problem inside the gearbox internally. He proceeded to advise I take the car into the Honda dealership I brought it from and have the vehicle repaired under warranty. And this is where the problems began.

Honda took the vehicle in and took a look at it, lubricated a few of the parts but could still see there was a problem with the gearbox. Th dealership rang me and said we believe that the problem lies within the gearbox itself. Unfortunately we have to strip down the vehicle for the problem to be diagnosed. They advised me that if they strip the vehicle down and the problem is due to 'misuse' then I would be liable for the labour cost of the re-build which is 939.60 and for the repair costs which at the time they believed it was the gear syncros between gear 1 and 2 and that would cost approx 1,700. As I could not believe it would possibly be down to 'misuse' of the gears I signed the agreement and said go ahead and strip it (if I didn't sign I would of been given a broken car back and they advised if they give it back and I try to take it in further down the line, they may void the warranty all together as I may have caused further damage by accepting the vehicle back and continuing to drive it so basically I had no choice).

The next day I got a call from the dealership to advise that they had found the problem but Honda's 'master technician' has put the fault down to and I quote "as a result of bulking into gear and the driving style of the customer". They found damage to the back of the syncro hub and required a new sleeve set for gears 1 and gear 2 which would be a cost of 1,126.38 on top of the 939.60 cost of the re-build. All of which I was supposedly liable for.

Obviously the vehicle is less than 10 months old, it has just about 7,000 miles on it and Honda are telling me it's because of my driving style and therefore my fault and the warranty will not cover this. Honda sell the vehicle as a track vehicle, they have no proof what-so-ever that this damage has been caused by 'bulking into gear' more than once so they can they put that down to misuse. I believe by 'bulking into gear' they mean crunching the gears when changing but surely after doing this small mistake once, the gearbox should not break, again the car was sold as a track car, which will obviously mean it should be able to be pushed harder than a normal car and yet one small mistake can lead to a broken gearbox and a bill for over 2,000.

I was told by the dealership to take it up with Honda Customer Relations as I told them there is no way I'm paying the bill for this. I rang Honda Customer Relations who, after 2 mins of me being put on hold and not having said anything about the issue I was having, came back to me and said that they were sorry but they are not overturning the decision of the 'master technician' as they cannot do so and this cannot be dealt with by their department. I asked if I could speak to their manager there to which I was greeted with "the manager would not be able to overturn the decision either unfortunately, you will have to take this up with the motor ombudsman and they will deal with your case because as far as we are concerned, this case is closed and you will have to pay for the repairs or you will not have your vehicle returned.

And so, I've spoken to the Motor Ombudsman, I've lodged a complaint as best as I can with as much information as I can.

Please, if anyone has any further advice of what to do then please let me know or if anyone has had similar problems again please post it here. The Honda car the dealership loaned me has to go back tomorrow as they said if I did not return it they would be reporting the vehicle as stolen so I have no choice in the matter. They've completed the repair to my car and are telling me I need to pay for it otherwise I'm not getting it back. I do not know whether or not paying for the repairs and taking the vehicle back would be an admission of liability on my side so I'm hesitate to do this as of yet. If it is then I will not have a car to use for potentially months (until the motor ombudsman investigate and finish) but I'll still be paying for my car every month to Honda Finance.

Do I have any legal stance on this at all?

Again so sorry for such a long story but I didn't know how I could condense this and still get the full story across. Any advice would be incredibly welcome.

Many thanks
A fella Honda enthusiast (potentially not for much longer)
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 6th September 2019, 20:01
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Firstly sorry about your car this is a right pain!

Secondly with regard to "misuse" honda now HAVE to prove that this is due to misuse. They must also define what "misuse" means. I assume they had a definition on their paperwork you signed.

Now this is impossible for them to prove and are relying on you being a scared consumer and just footing the bill.

Get yourself over to a forum I used a while back called 'legalbeagles' they were a massive help to me full of lawyers and smart people who know way more than myself

Post this post and I am sure someone will help

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 6th September 2019, 21:25
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I had a similar issue with VW and that was a diesel that went up and down the motorway everyday. But because a master tech said in his 'opinion' it was caused by driving style I had to pay.

I believe the issue was with a faulty part or faulty fitted part from the factory that only showed up after months of driving.

I got a 3rd party quote and VW changed a 2k bill into 650 because I said I don't want them to fix it.

Basically I took it on chin because I didn't have the time or energy to fight them.

Has your car ever been back to the Honda dealership since you bought it?

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 6th September 2019, 22:12 Thread Starter
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Hi Fergyciv,

thanks for your reply, I will definitely head over there and see what they say. But you are definitely right, If I didn't have the knowledge of the technicians at the AA backing me and telling me it's all a bunch of BS, I might of ended up footing the bill, but definitely will not be in this case. I just won't have them screw me over like that. They haven't offered me any definition of the term 'misuse' and also definitely do not have solid proof. It's all just the 'master technicians' hearsay. He's only seen the pictures, hasn't even looked at my vehicle himself.




Hi Jakabi,

thanks for your reply, sorry to hear about your VW mate, seems like it's not only Honda then! My vehicle hasn't been back to the dealership at all since I got it, I did notice 1st gear sticking slightly sometimes but it never really caused me any issues so never took it back. I don't really have the time or energy to fight them, plus I don't have a car to get to work after tomorrow, but on behalf of all people this has happened to, I won't be letting this go, I will take them to court if I have too.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 6th September 2019, 22:26
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From my experience owners of Type R get a raw deal with warranty and were ever possible Honda UK fob you off, with the normal Civic it seems any complaint I make is correct and everything is sorted under warranty. Hope you get this sorted but I suspect your in for a long hard battle but for sure get the finance company involved but even though they are supposed to be impartial you have Honda finance which ultimately serve Honda Motor Company which I found not very impartial until I supplied concrete evidence which us easier said then done.

Long story short I got rid of the FK8 now have a sport plus and dont really regret it, in fact I regret selling the CRZ for the FK2 and then FK8 and very much doubt I would buy another Type R due to cost cutting corners that are cut and a poor warranty. Having said all this if I hadn't sold the CRZ I still doubt I would own it today. Good luck you are going to need and I suspect short term you are going to have to pay for this but keep all the removed parts and a sample of the oil if you go onto fight this, if you can swallow you pride try to negotiate you pay the labour and Honda UK supply the parts as damage limitation to your wallet as this will be your easiest chance of contribution even though you will not agree with this and I cant fault you. Exchange all communication via email as you can prove what is said and agreed and be warned Honda UK have some sort of sending out email service that send the emails out around 16:58 every day so there is not much chance of a meaningful discussion easily. Yes they really do push all the buttons and make it very difficult and as for the ombudsmen that will take anything from 6 to 12 months.

Last edited by RickHondaR; 7th September 2019 at 07:03.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 6th September 2019, 22:30
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Also try getting some information in the https://www.facebook.com/groups/HOND...aims/requests/

Last edited by RickHondaR; 7th September 2019 at 07:02.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 6th September 2019, 23:16
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Some great advice from the other guys. Sounds like you have a good case but don't fall into the trap where it starts to cost you even more (not just money but time as well) with no guarantee of winning.

Good luck!

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 8th September 2019, 15:18
 
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Absolutely disgraceful considering the vehicle is still under warranty and and Honda deserve everything they get in terms of bad publicity. Assuming the vehicle has not been used for anything other than what it was intended such as rallying, racing or off-road use.

As advised above, you have no option other than to pay up in order to recover the vehicle, retain the faulty parts and go to Arbitration and if necessary to a small claim court.

I have taken a case to the Motor Traders Arbitration and the Adjudicators are totally independent of the Motor Trade. There are a few hoops to climb through and it does take time and patience. If the facts are as you state them you would have every chance of success.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 8th September 2019, 15:35
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Quote:
If you have been given a free guarantee with your product then this forms part of your contract. The shop may say you have to claim a refund from the manufacturer, or claim under the manufacturer's guarantee. This isn't true. Your rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 are against the retailer, not the manufacturer. Guarantees and warranties simply give additional rights, which you can choose to use. However sometimes the terms of the guarantee often give you more than you are entitled to in law. Most manufacturers give at least one year’s guarantee from freedom of manufacturing defects. If you return the goods to the retailer within the timeframe of the guarantee most retailers will replace the item with little argument, as they will be able to obtain a refund from the manufacturer direct.
Money Saving Expert.
Unless it's a faulty car it would seem.
To often retailers try to palm off their liability to the manufacturer.
Was your purchase contract with the retailer or the manufacturer?
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