Keep current map or move Group N? - Civinfo
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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 12th September 2019, 19:48 Thread Starter
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Keep current map or move Group N?

Hi all,

Currently, my FN2 is mapped (Flashpro) with the following bolt-ons:

Teg 421
Custom 2.5 with 200 cel (looking for something quieter if any of you have a spare Toda)
CPL CAI

I'm booked in at Grinspeed for:

Balancer shaft delete
FD2 Cams

I'll obviously be taking it easy until I can get it remapped afterwards and am debating whether to change the TB and intake (again if anyone has a spare RRC and FD2 TB, do shout) before I do. The flipside to the TB / Intake is I may charge it instead.

Reckon I'll be safe with my current map (if I don't drive like an idjit) or drop to the Group N again? I start a new job the day after I get the car back from Honda so I'll literally have no time to get it done and it's my daily.

I'll obviously discuss with Stevie but interested to hear your thoughts - there will be a delay of at least a week after the work is done as Honda will have the car, but that's another story.

Cheers!
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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 12th September 2019, 20:16
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The oil pump doesn't need any changes to the current map but with cams it will.

Suspect you will be driving safe and slow until you get the map tweaked so assume it will be fine. You can always datalog and just check your AFR is on the rich side rather than lean and check for any knocks to put your mind at rest.

Stock and Group N are very rich as I found out a couple of weeks back.

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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 07:56
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Can you not ring in sick to the new job and pootle down from Leyland to TDi North in Warrington for a tune?! I'd be reticent about driving for too long unmapped with cams but if you take it easy (3k and under: no VTEC) hopefully it'll be ok.
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 08:15
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I'd be reticent about defrauding my (new?) employer out of a day's wages.
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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 10:11 Thread Starter
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I'd be reticent about defrauding my (new?) employer out of a day's wages.
Given that I quit my last place as I had three months notice and landed soundly on my behind and couldn't find anything for a while as I was overconfident - you're not wrong! As it is I'm changing industry, trying something new and keeping my bits crossed it works out.

Cheers for the advice guys. Given what gains @Bones126 has had with his SC I'm even in two minds about the cams now, the Delete is a definite as I also want the chain / tensioner changed etc for peace of mind for the future and I trust the guys at Grinspeed to spot anything untoward going on whilst they're fettling.

I'd have looked around to having it mapped the next day - but I have to get it to Honda for the roof to be resprayed and that's been a) a pita to actually get and b) a pita to actually arrange for them to do it!
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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 11:00
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You going for the drop in sump baffle too?

I was out on track this week at Curborough with heavy cornering and it really puts your mind at rest knowing its in there. There was a guy there with his EP3 and he was saying he had the oil starvation issue a while back which meant a full rebuild (didnt have a baffled sump at the time).
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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 11:34
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Do the cams anyway if you're going in for an oil pump - sure some of the labour is duplicated? FD2 cams will work nicely with a supercharger, if you eventually decide do go that route. Also make sure you get a new timing chain 👍🏼
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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 11:44
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Quote:
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Do the cams anyway if you're going in for an oil pump - sure some of the labour is duplicated? FD2 cams will work nicely with a supercharger, if you eventually decide do go that route. Also make sure you get a new timing chain 👍🏼
Depends re timing chain, I think my FN2 has had an easy life and has only done 30k ... when they checked it, it was in perfect condition with zero stretch so advised no chain/tensioner required.

But you are right, worth checking whats involved with labour as some jobs can be done cheap\for free at the same time (i.e the sump baffle).
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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 12:52
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I know itís all down to personal opinion, for me, if you are looking for a big gain, say over an additional 50bhp. I would look at the boosted route rather than spend on cams, followers, oil pump, manifolds bigger TB etc. as that will mount up to what you could get a boosted kit for, especially second hand. Unless you want to stay NA, which isnít an issue for me but others do like to keep NA. If you looking for anything around 250 NA then cams I would do yes. Like I say, if you looking for big power then SC or if just more power than standard the NA.
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 13:50
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If you remove the chain (for pump, cams etc.), I believe best practice is to replace it. Stevie at Grinspeed will advise: he's worked on mine for seven years now and it's yet to go bang!

Quote:
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Quote:
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Do the cams anyway if you're going in for an oil pump - sure some of the labour is duplicated? FD2 cams will work nicely with a supercharger, if you eventually decide do go that route. Also make sure you get a new timing chain 👍🏼
Depends re timing chain, I think my FN2 has had an easy life and has only done 30k ... when they checked it, it was in perfect condition with zero stretch so advised no chain/tensioner required.

But you are right, worth checking whats involved with labour as some jobs can be done cheap\for free at the same time (i.e the sump baffle).
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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 15:29
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If you remove the chain (for pump, cams etc.), I believe best practice is to replace it. Stevie at Grinspeed will advise: he's worked on mine for seven years now and it's yet to go bang!
Yep, Stevie has done all the work on mine too, if he said it needed one I would have done it but he said it was perfect so no point. I would imagine the majority of FN2's out there today would need one especially ones with average/high mileage.
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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 16:29 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakabi View Post
You going for the drop in sump baffle too?

I was out on track this week at Curborough with heavy cornering and it really puts your mind at rest knowing its in there. There was a guy there with his EP3 and he was saying he had the oil starvation issue a while back which meant a full rebuild (didnt have a baffled sump at the time).
Yup, I don't need to be on a track with the meisters to get that amount of oil movement on the B roads around here!
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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 16:50 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bones126 View Post
I know itís all down to personal opinion, for me, if you are looking for a big gain, say over an additional 50bhp. I would look at the boosted route rather than spend on cams, followers, oil pump, manifolds bigger TB etc. as that will mount up to what you could get a boosted kit for, especially second hand. Unless you want to stay NA, which isnít an issue for me but others do like to keep NA. If you looking for anything around 250 NA then cams I would do yes. Like I say, if you looking for big power then SC or if just more power than standard the NA.
This is it, the Manifold (thanks again ), exhaust and intake; plus map made a huge difference, light and day. The Meisters did the same for the handling. Somewhere on here is a graph from back in the day from TDi comparing FN2s to FD2s - I found it the other day, yes there's a difference, yes they're more aggressive, but I don't know if it's really worth £600ish on top of the delete and chain etc for what at the end of the day is marginal - I appreciate for £400 more you can get TDi's or Drag Cartels etc but if I do that I figure you may as well uprate the tensioners etc and go full-on. Likewise, with the TB and intake, I've got a Grams 72mm sitting here waiting to have something done with it, but again, if I just put it all towards a charger later in the day it's certainly more cost-effective.

I haven't done anything to the car to chase figures, in fact, I can only guestimate what she's making right now, however, she drives absolutely superbly and easily out handles say an S3, not as quick mind.

I was absolutely set on getting them, but I'm having buyers remorse in advance, plus there's a chance I can buy a place locally and that has to come into it too!
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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 16:53 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakabi View Post
Yep, Stevie has done all the work on mine too, if he said it needed one I would have done it but he said it was perfect so no point. I would imagine the majority of FN2's out there today would need one especially ones with average/high mileage.
Funnily enough, he told me to do mine at the same time - but I've done 44k in 2.5 years in mine, 44 to 88k.
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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 13th September 2019, 17:04
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If you thinking FI at some point put the money towards an LSD instead of cams ... if you don't already have one. If you have loads of spare cash get both
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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 14th September 2019, 21:09 Thread Starter
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If you thinking FI at some point put the money towards an LSD instead of cams ... if you don't already have one. If you have loads of spare cash get both
LSD Equipped; may be moot as may have the chance of aToda exhaust which I'd take over the cams...
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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 16th September 2019, 08:33
 
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Hey guys, just was reading the thread, just quick question for u guys, been out of here for a bit, since Chris did my map 4 me, have RRC 2.5 catback, skunk2 CAI and skunk2 DIC
I'm thinking of putting in a turbo or SC, Im first going to get TB and 3inch,but then want to get it boosted as I'm not that happy with results... Any advice would b great
Thanks
Michael

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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 16th September 2019, 15:40
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If you're not happy with the results, is it worth continuing the expensive NA route with a TB and exhaust, followed by another etune? At best, doing this will get you a few BHP up top and a little midrange and I'd guess it'd be unlikely to dispel your lingering sense of disappointment with what you have.

If you're considering going FI, then all your nice NA parts (RRC mani, TB, Skunk2 CAI and cams) kind of become superfluous. May as well strip them all off and go back to stock parts before sticking the turbo / sc on. Then you can sell them and offset the cost of the new parts.

Or unless you really love the FN2, sell it and start with something faster...
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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 16th September 2019, 18:21
 
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Ok, yeah, I hear what ** saying, when I first bought it, I fell in love with it off the bat, then I started with the upgrades, and I'm not sure if I haven't quite got the right combination or what, but I put the rrc, cams and CAI in at once, with map, and was just expecting a little more. I still love everything about the car, the way it handles, the feel, everything, just really want to b able to pull up with an s3 or even wrx and KNOW that they're getting smoked! I wasn't aware that if I go FI I have to take off the bolt ons.... Thanks for your advice, definitely something to think about

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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 17th September 2019, 07:03
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I'm afraid you'll never smoke an S3 or a WRX in an NA FN2. They're too quick!

You could keep your bolt ons (RRC in particular) with the TTS shaft drive kit here: https://www.tts-performance.co.uk/si...haft-Drive-Kit

I think this is what you'll need.
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