Big thumbs down for Toda (big thumbs up for TDI North) - Civinfo
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 09:50 Thread Starter
Supporter
 
Lunar Tick's Avatar
 
Car: 2008 FD2, Vivid Blue
Join Date: 8th June 2010
Location: Northumberland, UK ENGLAND
Posts: 2,124
Thanks: 362
Thanked 718 Times in 572 Posts
iTrader: (2)
Thumbs down Big thumbs down for Toda (big thumbs up for TDI North)

Well, as some of you may know from another thread, I had some more power mods carried out at TDI N on my FD2 recently - basically, higher compression head gasket, port matched cylinder head, fettled RRC inlet manifold (see here: http://www.civinfo.com/forum/fd2/546...hanks-tdi.html )

As part of the head strip down, my Toda A3 cams had to be removed. Now, these cams are the second set of A3s I've had - the first were replaced as faulty when it was discovered that some of the lobes were extensively pitted after only 12,000 miles use. Anyway, when this second set were inspected guess what? Yep - signs of premature wear on some of the lobes after only 10,000 miles! In this case, the wear was on different lobes to the first set. Neil checked and double checked, and confirmed that there was absolutely nothing wrong with my engine/head/oilways etc as had been suggested by the importers.

To cut a long story short, initial metallurgical tests on my second set of cams shows that their hardness rating is not as it should be - below that of OEM cams - suggesting poor manufacturing quality. Apparently, Toda has outsourced some of its manufacturing to China and this may have something to do with it...

Obviously, TDI North didn't want to put worn cams back in so Paul has donated me the A3 cams that he had used in his FN2 (completely unmarked after slightly more miles) while he tries to seek redress from the importers. Amazing service again from TDI North and shows just how much they care about their customers

As for Toda, I wouldn't touch their latest A3 cams now with a bargepole. In fact, I wouldn't touch any of their products, especially given their price. I think this goes to show that the old adage 'you get what you pay for' is complete ball_ocks!!
Lunar Tick is offline  
Thank You to Lunar Tick from 3 Users:
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:00
Supporter
 
coste1l's Avatar
 
Car: 09 Suzuki Swift Sport white
Join Date: 16th January 2010
Location: Sunderland UK ENGLAND
Posts: 20,382
Thanks: 1,830
Thanked 2,783 Times in 2,531 Posts
iTrader: (15)
Re: Big thumbs down for Toda (big thumbs up for TDI North)

So my copy toda mani i got from ebay for 150quid instead of 1500 is probably real..... bad news that mate but top marks to tdi for the cam loan! Makes it hard to know what gains you actually got from the headwork i guess?

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
coste1l is offline  
post #3 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:04 Thread Starter
Supporter
** Thread starter **
 
Lunar Tick's Avatar
 
Car: 2008 FD2, Vivid Blue
Join Date: 8th June 2010
Location: Northumberland, UK ENGLAND
Posts: 2,124
Thanks: 362
Thanked 718 Times in 572 Posts
iTrader: (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coste1l View Post
So my copy toda mani i got from ebay for 150quid instead of 1500 is probably real..... bad news that mate but top marks to tdi for the cam loan! Makes it hard to know what gains you actually got from the headwork i guess?

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
The quality of that Toda copy could well be superior

I still have A3 cams in - the A3s from Paul's car - so the cam spec is identical. This means the gains I got are from the headwork
Lunar Tick is offline  
 
post #4 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:11
 
Join Date: 8th June 2010
Location: Brugge, Belgium BE
Posts: 33
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader: (0)
cams

Why go for Toda and not Spoon?
marcel.daffue is offline  
post #5 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:15 Thread Starter
Supporter
** Thread starter **
 
Lunar Tick's Avatar
 
Car: 2008 FD2, Vivid Blue
Join Date: 8th June 2010
Location: Northumberland, UK ENGLAND
Posts: 2,124
Thanks: 362
Thanked 718 Times in 572 Posts
iTrader: (2)
In the past, Toda A3 cams have been highly regarded - excellent quality and they make great power on an NA build. The issue now is that the manufacturing quality appears to have slipped
Lunar Tick is offline  
post #6 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:21
Supporter
 
stoney's Avatar
 
Car: 2007 FN2 GT
Join Date: 24th March 2010
Location: lisburn NORTHIRELAND
Posts: 10,524
Thanks: 227
Thanked 1,943 Times in 1,635 Posts
iTrader: (13)
Sorry to hear this fella but that's a very good deed that Paul has done .

TBH I thought everyone knew that everything JDM or not is made in China and Taiwan. Personally I have no issue with this as long as the QC is 100% which as far as Toda goes doesn't seem to be the case.

Are people really that blinded by JDM that they think that the likes of Mugen has a factory in Tokyo pumping out cams, t shirts and brake pads. Of course not they are all outsourced and rebranded and more importantly marked up massively in price .

JDM = Made in Taiwan - Skunk2 Racing


All the big players are at it

Would you not swap to TDI cams ?
stoney is offline  
Thanks to stoney from:
post #7 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:23
Supporter
 
coste1l's Avatar
 
Car: 09 Suzuki Swift Sport white
Join Date: 16th January 2010
Location: Sunderland UK ENGLAND
Posts: 20,382
Thanks: 1,830
Thanked 2,783 Times in 2,531 Posts
iTrader: (15)
Re: Big thumbs down for Toda (big thumbs up for TDI North)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Tick View Post
The quality of that Toda copy could well be superior

I still have A3 cams in - the A3s from Paul's car - so the cam spec is identical. This means the gains I got are from the headwork
I didnt read it properly and wrongly assumed they were the stage 2 tdi cams.... My bad

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
coste1l is offline  
Thanks to coste1l from:
post #8 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:24
Batmobiles Rule ✌
 
Staffs Deltic's Avatar
 
Car: FK8
Join Date: 7th December 2009
Location: Stoke-on-Trent ENGLAND
Posts: 6,587
Thanks: 1,410
Thanked 1,563 Times in 1,351 Posts
iTrader: (12)
Poor quality control from Toda, but got to say what a superb offer from Paul at TDI North. I know he has been fighting your corner on this and it again shows what customer service should be like.
Staffs Deltic is offline  
Thank You to Staffs Deltic from 2 Users:
post #9 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:26
Supporter
 
stoney's Avatar
 
Car: 2007 FN2 GT
Join Date: 24th March 2010
Location: lisburn NORTHIRELAND
Posts: 10,524
Thanks: 227
Thanked 1,943 Times in 1,635 Posts
iTrader: (13)
Is it lobes marks again Andy? Bearing surfaces OK? Hope the oils been changed . maybe an oil test might explain what's going on inside?
stoney is offline  
post #10 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:28
Supporter
 
FireBIade's Avatar
 
Car: M200, er.....CW
Join Date: 5th November 2010
Location: Bournemouth, UK ENGLAND
Posts: 1,101
Thanks: 19
Thanked 152 Times in 141 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Can't think of what's floating around in your oil, hopefully the filter has sucked up all the metal.
FireBIade is offline  
post #11 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:29 Thread Starter
Supporter
** Thread starter **
 
Lunar Tick's Avatar
 
Car: 2008 FD2, Vivid Blue
Join Date: 8th June 2010
Location: Northumberland, UK ENGLAND
Posts: 2,124
Thanks: 362
Thanked 718 Times in 572 Posts
iTrader: (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoney View Post
Sorry to hear this fella but that's a very good deed that Paul has done .

TBH I thought everyone knew that everything JDM or not is made in China and Taiwan. Personally I have no issue with this as long as the QC is 100% which as far as Toda goes doesn't seem to be the case.

Are people really that blinded by JDM that they think that the likes of Mugen has a factory in Tokyo pumping out cams, t shirts and brake pads. Of course not they are all outsourced and rebranded and more importantly marked up massively in price .

JDM = Made in Taiwan - Skunk2 Racing


All the big players are at it

Would you not swap to TDI cams ?
Spot on Stoney! I would swap to TDI stage 1s if it proved necessary. However, we think that the A3s I have in at the moment from Paul's car are from a 'good' batch
Lunar Tick is offline  
post #12 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:30
Supporter
 
ash_rage's Avatar
 
Car: 2016 CTR FK2 GT - Milano
Join Date: 14th January 2010
Location: London and Essex ENGLAND
Posts: 6,643
Thanks: 765
Thanked 629 Times in 503 Posts
iTrader: (22)
Wow, wasn't expecting that from TODA. I hold my TODA manifold and delete kit in high regard as I was always told all TODA products are of high quality. Now I'm thinking the Tegiwa versions might have been just as good!
ash_rage is offline  
post #13 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:33
 
pulpmelon_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12th December 2010
Location: Manchester GB
Posts: 1,612
Thanks: 25
Thanked 303 Times in 206 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Everything aftermarket on my cars is from the UK or US, that way If owt goes wrong can pick up the phone and yell at someone in english!
pulpmelon_r is offline  
Thanks to pulpmelon_r from:
post #14 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:33 Thread Starter
Supporter
** Thread starter **
 
Lunar Tick's Avatar
 
Car: 2008 FD2, Vivid Blue
Join Date: 8th June 2010
Location: Northumberland, UK ENGLAND
Posts: 2,124
Thanks: 362
Thanked 718 Times in 572 Posts
iTrader: (2)
The marks are on the lobes but different ones to first time around. Not as extensive as first time around as we caught it earlier this time. In a couple of places, you can see initial signs of scoring, which if left, would have progressed to pitting. I change the oil every 3000 miles and it's just had a change so don't think that's a worry.

The Rockwell hardness test (C-scale) results were very revealing...
Lunar Tick is offline  
post #15 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:34 Thread Starter
Supporter
** Thread starter **
 
Lunar Tick's Avatar
 
Car: 2008 FD2, Vivid Blue
Join Date: 8th June 2010
Location: Northumberland, UK ENGLAND
Posts: 2,124
Thanks: 362
Thanked 718 Times in 572 Posts
iTrader: (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pulpmelon_r View Post
Everything aftermarket on my cars is from the UK or US, that way If owt goes wrong can pick up the phone and yell at someone in english!

He he - I like your way of thinking Pulp!!
Lunar Tick is offline  
post #16 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:35
Supporter
 
stoney's Avatar
 
Car: 2007 FN2 GT
Join Date: 24th March 2010
Location: lisburn NORTHIRELAND
Posts: 10,524
Thanks: 227
Thanked 1,943 Times in 1,635 Posts
iTrader: (13)
Ash the toda delete kit is a Honda FD2 pump with a slight port on the chamber and a stiffer relief spring .

The biggest mod on it is the removal of the Honda badge and the Toda etch

Tegiwa pump is the bare FD2. Pump and accessories . not inferior in anyway
stoney is offline  
Thanks to stoney from:
post #17 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:36 Thread Starter
Supporter
** Thread starter **
 
Lunar Tick's Avatar
 
Car: 2008 FD2, Vivid Blue
Join Date: 8th June 2010
Location: Northumberland, UK ENGLAND
Posts: 2,124
Thanks: 362
Thanked 718 Times in 572 Posts
iTrader: (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash_rage View Post
Wow, wasn't expecting that from TODA. I hold my TODA manifold and delete kit in high regard as I was always told all TODA products are of high quality. Now I'm thinking the Tegiwa versions might have been just as good!
Hi there Ash - I think that the manifolds are still of very good quality. Spoke to a retailer who's sold plenty and said he's not had any bad reports coming in
Lunar Tick is offline  
Thanks to Lunar Tick from:
post #18 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:36
Supporter
 
ash_rage's Avatar
 
Car: 2016 CTR FK2 GT - Milano
Join Date: 14th January 2010
Location: London and Essex ENGLAND
Posts: 6,643
Thanks: 765
Thanked 629 Times in 503 Posts
iTrader: (22)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoney View Post
Ash the toda delete kit is a Honda FD2 pump with a slight port on the chamber and a stiffer relief spring .

The biggest mod on it is the removal of the Honda badge and the Toda etch

Tegiwa pump is the bare FD2. Pump and accessories . not inferior in anyway

Didnt know that about the tegiwa kit, thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Tick View Post
Hi there Ash - I think that the manifolds are still of very good quality. Spoke to a retailer who's sold plenty and said he's not had any bad reports coming in
Good to hear especially as mine is wrapped!
ash_rage is offline  
post #19 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:36
Supporter
 
stoney's Avatar
 
Car: 2007 FN2 GT
Join Date: 24th March 2010
Location: lisburn NORTHIRELAND
Posts: 10,524
Thanks: 227
Thanked 1,943 Times in 1,635 Posts
iTrader: (13)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Tick View Post
The marks are on the lobes but different ones to first time around. Not as extensive as first time around as we caught it earlier this time. In a couple of places, you can see initial signs of scoring, which if left, would have progressed to pitting. I change the oil every 3000 miles and it's just had a change so don't think that's a worry.

The Rockwell hardness test (C-scale) results were very revealing...
Soft as se ?
stoney is offline  
post #20 of 108 (permalink) Old 5th February 2013, 10:38 Thread Starter
Supporter
** Thread starter **
 
Lunar Tick's Avatar
 
Car: 2008 FD2, Vivid Blue
Join Date: 8th June 2010
Location: Northumberland, UK ENGLAND
Posts: 2,124
Thanks: 362
Thanked 718 Times in 572 Posts
iTrader: (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoney View Post
Soft as se ?
Significantly below what you would expect for billet cams!
Lunar Tick is offline  
Reply

  Civinfo > Civic Type R > Type-R

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Civinfo forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Your User Name is the name that appears by all your posts on the forum, and so should not be your email address.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



  LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: https://www.civinfo.com/forum/type-r/91985-big-thumbs-down-toda-big-thumbs-up-tdi-north.html
Posted By For Type Date
Civic-FX.net - Forum Honda Civic ab 2006 (FK, FN, FD) - Thema anzeigen - Tazz: NA (Sauger) Setup This thread Refback 5th February 2013 21:51

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dealers A thumbs up for HUK! Pabby Buying, Dealers and Servicing 25 13th January 2012 12:18
Thumbs Up jaybyname General Discussion (8G) 5 1st June 2011 11:20
Tyre Choice Thumbs up for blackcircles.com Adambsmith Wheels, Tyres, Suspension and Brakes (8G) 0 5th January 2007 18:17

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome