2.2 Civic Type S GT - MPG and Impression - Civinfo
 
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th September 2009, 17:19 Thread Starter
 
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2.2 Civic Type S GT - MPG and Impression

We bought one of these for my girlfriend in March 2009 and average 3,500 miles a month and I thought I'd give you my impressions of the car (first Honda we have owned).

We bought the Civic when her BMW 320D M Sport went back to the fleet company having reached it's 3 year mileage allowance in 18 months... Having decided to opt out of a company car scheme for a while to save towards our wedding we looked around for a good value hatch to use as a workhorse but also be a bit of fun and the Civic won us over (looks, engine, reputation for reliability). Well here are our thoughts after 25,000 miles in 6 months:

Coming from the BMW we knew as soon as we test drove the Civic that it wasn't in the same league in terms of handling and we did have some issues with the hard plastics on the dash. However, we also recognised it's a damn site cheaper and after a 30 mile test drive on various roads we felt that for a front wheel drive car the handling wasn't too bad (certainly better than a Mark V Golf) and the build despite the look of the plastics was impressive with no squeaks or rattles. The engine despite having only 140bhp impressed even if it did feel significantly slower than what we were used to in the BMW.

After about 15,000 miles the Michelin tyres on the front needed replacing and for the last few thousand miles before we changed them the ride on these was shocking and the handling went to pot. We have changed these and stuck Goodyear F1 Aysymmetric's on and this has made a huge difference but they so seem to be wearing quite fast.

All in all:

Good Points: Relatively cheap when compared to rivals, economy can be good on a run, great boot (like the hidden compartment), looks great especially parked against most other euro boxes like Golf, A3, Focus, Astra etc, great gear change, refined engine, excellent build quality

Bad Points: Overall cr4p fuel economy. On our 100 mile plus commute which is half country road and "A" road and half urban crawl we rarely get over 40mpg usually late 30's giving us a range on a tank of about 380 miles. Annoying seatbelts that are difficult to grab when seated as they are so far back, seats that dont have a memory position so if you move them to access the back you always have to reset your seating position, cr4p radio reception, poor paint quality, door locks that don't open when you turn off ignition or if you pull handle internally (minor but annoying), no auto lock function when you pull away, rubbish and least intuitive cruise control system I have ever used (the one in my motorhome on a van base is a million times better!), engine is underpowered and runs out of steam in all gears too quickly, lack of rear wiper seems daft on any hatchback!

In conclusion, great little car but for me let down by too many niggly issues most of which could and should have been eliminated at the prototype stage. Would I buy another, personally no but only because we will be returning to BMW but I would always reccommend people to drive one if they are after a car in this segment. Only problem is, having driven a friends Mark VI Golf the other day the main opposition has marched on by quite some way.

I guess it's proof of the old saying "you get what you pay for..."

SL
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th September 2009, 17:36
 
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It's very much down to personal preference. I came out of a 120D M Sport and fuel consumption on the car with it's Efficient Dynamics Gubbins was not good. An absolute maximum of 37 mpg. The Civic does 43 day in day out.

I'm not sure why your tyre wear is do high. Our car has just done 12,500 miles and there is 5mm left.

I like BMW's, we have had since 2005 an M3, 318i, Z4C, X5, 330D and 120D. Would I buy another, well probably not. Why you ask, well one thing, chronic depreciation, partially down to the base spec's being disappointing. Also 3 of those cars spent significant times in the garage with faults and 1 of them ended up being bought back by BMW, hence we got the 120D

Would I have another 1 series, well I like the dash in them, but that's about it. Probably has something to do with the constant power assistance failure the car suffered from on high speed runs of over 1 hour. The feeling of your steering goind dead solid in the outside lane of the M1, is not something I want to experience again.

Last edited by CatherineJ; 4th September 2009 at 17:38.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th September 2009, 17:47 Thread Starter
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Surprised to hear you've had so many issues. As you can tell we do pretty high mileages and the only cars we have owned (other than the Civic) without any problems have been the BMW's. Have had M5, 520D, 320D and now a new Z4 3.0 and have clocked up in excess of 300,000 miles with no faults at all other than run flat warnings on the 3 series but that was cured in one trip to the dealer.

I'm not having a pop at the Civic, as I've said I quite like it for what it is just thought I'd post my views as a high mileage user and first time owner.

On the tyre front I can only think that it is the country road driving, lots of cornering and poor quality surfaces?

PS I'd take the 120d M sport over the Civic any day of the week...

Last edited by Shropshirelad; 4th September 2009 at 17:53.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th September 2009, 18:03
 
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Very interesting, having just purchased same car, The only point I agree with is the lack of memory on the seats.
Having pulled out of buying a roc through v.w. ineptitude,and driving them back to back,I just loved the engine power delivery.
getting 45-50m.p.g. on similar roads without the urban crawl.
Manage to stay with bmw.118d around Exmoor last week-end averaging 43m.p.g.
Cruise control really similar to my v.w. california.

With latest price rise v.w. roc is now 4k dearer in similar spec.
Maybe having had 3 honda's recently from s2000,ctr,and jazz and not once been back apart from servicing,which is at totally reverse of my german marque experience.
Certainly no regrets
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th September 2009, 18:05
 
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No I have to say our Civic has only been into the garage once since we bought it and that was because someone had scratched the panel around the window switches on delivery. It goes in tomorrow for it's first service, so it will be interesting to see what they report back on brake pad wear.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th September 2009, 18:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropshirelad View Post
We bought one of these for my girlfriend in March 2009 and average 3,500 miles a month and I thought I'd give you my impressions of the car (first Honda we have owned).

We bought the Civic when her BMW 320D M Sport went back to the fleet company having reached it's 3 year mileage allowance in 18 months... Having decided to opt out of a company car scheme for a while to save towards our wedding we looked around for a good value hatch to use as a workhorse but also be a bit of fun and the Civic won us over (looks, engine, reputation for reliability). Well here are our thoughts after 25,000 miles in 6 months:

Coming from the BMW we knew as soon as we test drove the Civic that it wasn't in the same league in terms of handling and we did have some issues with the hard plastics on the dash. However, we also recognised it's a damn site cheaper and after a 30 mile test drive on various roads we felt that for a front wheel drive car the handling wasn't too bad (certainly better than a Mark V Golf) and the build despite the look of the plastics was impressive with no squeaks or rattles. The engine despite having only 140bhp impressed even if it did feel significantly slower than what we were used to in the BMW.

After about 15,000 miles the Michelin tyres on the front needed replacing and for the last few thousand miles before we changed them the ride on these was shocking and the handling went to pot. We have changed these and stuck Goodyear F1 Aysymmetric's on and this has made a huge difference but they so seem to be wearing quite fast.

Depends how soft the compound is of the tyre, quite a few have changed to Bridgestone's as they seem to last longer. My Bridgestone's last at least 25-30,000 miles.

All in all:

Good Points: Relatively cheap when compared to rivals, economy can be good on a run, great boot (like the hidden compartment), looks great especially parked against most other euro boxes like Golf, A3, Focus, Astra etc, great gear change, refined engine, excellent build quality

Bad Points: Overall cr4p fuel economy. On our 100 mile plus commute which is half country road and "A" road and half urban crawl we rarely get over 40mpg usually late 30's giving us a range on a tank of about 380 miles.
My 2.2 regularly does over 48mpg around town, around 54-58mpg on the motorway and sometimes up to 60mpg on 'A' roads. We always get between 500-600 miles per tank.
Annoying seatbelts that are difficult to grab when seated as they are so far back, seats that dont have a memory position so if you move them to access the back you always have to reset your seating position, cr4p radio reception, poor paint quality, door locks that don't open when you turn off ignition or if you pull handle internally (minor but annoying), no auto lock function when you pull away, rubbish and least intuitive cruise control system I have ever used (the one in my motorhome on a van base is a million times better!), engine is underpowered and runs out of steam in all gears too quickly, lack of rear wiper seems daft on any hatchback!
Trust me the engine is not under powered, even when ours was standard it easily kept up with Type R's, even more so since we fitted a tuning box. The lack a rear wiper is no problem and its just like having a saloon.

In conclusion, great little car but for me let down by too many niggly issues most of which could and should have been eliminated at the prototype stage. Would I buy another, personally no but only because we will be returning to BMW but I would always reccommend people to drive one if they are after a car in this segment. Only problem is, having driven a friends Mark VI Golf the other day the main opposition has marched on by quite some way.

I guess it's proof of the old saying "you get what you pay for..."

SL
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Last edited by smurf79; 4th September 2009 at 18:11.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th September 2009, 18:08 Thread Starter
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118d is probably a fair comparison in terms of performance and I'm not surprised you stuck with it, not sure if you would have done on a twisty B road though....

Friend of mine has 120d and I've never got close on the twisty stuff and we've even swapped cars to see if it's my driving... in this instance it's not!

Anyway, I don't want this to become a BMW are better than Civic etc that was not the purpose of the post and any comparison is irrelevant as they are at very different price points anyway.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th September 2009, 19:18
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If it's power that you lack, then take trip to 'Celtic Tuning' (or whoever) and boost the BHP up from 140 to 190, for a few hundred quid ...

Your tyre wear and mpg problems are unusual and may be down to 'innate' adjustment \ setting issues ...

Have you had the FW geometry checked ? - is the air filter dirty ? - when was it last serviced ? ...
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 4th September 2009, 19:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropshirelad View Post
118d is probably a fair comparison in terms of performance and I'm not surprised you stuck with it, not sure if you would have done on a twisty B road though....

Friend of mine has 120d and I've never got close on the twisty stuff and we've even swapped cars to see if it's my driving... in this instance it's not!

Anyway, I don't want this to become a BMW are better than Civic etc that was not the purpose of the post and any comparison is irrelevant as they are at very different price points anyway.
Can't fault you for your personal opinions regarding non memory seats,lack of rear wiper,locks that don't unlock when you pull the interior handle etc.Trouble is,commenting such as you'd take a 120d m sport over the Civic is bound raise an idea a few shots being aimed-good luck with your Beemers!(too much cash outlay for me unless opting for a poverty spec. version)
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 5th September 2009, 22:59
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatherineJ View Post
It's very much down to personal preference. I came out of a 120D M Sport and fuel consumption on the car with it's Efficient Dynamics Gubbins was not good. An absolute maximum of 37 mpg. The Civic does 43 day in day out.

I'm not sure why your tyre wear is do high. Our car has just done 12,500 miles and there is 5mm left.

I like BMW's, we have had since 2005 an M3, 318i, Z4C, X5, 330D and 120D. Would I buy another, well probably not. Why you ask, well one thing, chronic depreciation, partially down to the base spec's being disappointing. Also 3 of those cars spent significant times in the garage with faults and 1 of them ended up being bought back by BMW, hence we got the 120D

Would I have another 1 series, well I like the dash in them, but that's about it. Probably has something to do with the constant power assistance failure the car suffered from on high speed runs of over 1 hour. The feeling of your steering goind dead solid in the outside lane of the M1, is not something I want to experience again.
Interesting to hear about BMW issues. Our E92 330 Auto is coming up to 3 years old, it has gone in for warranty work on 6 occasions now, two of those when the BMW dealer had noticed a fault. We love the car and don't plan to change it any time soon, but we do have one big niggle, from about 10 months old the battery started playing up, and several moans at the dealer, they maintain that as the car does low mileage, that's the reason for the battery not holding charge, odd that, as none of our other cars have had this problem.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 6th September 2009, 11:17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropshirelad View Post
Bad Points: Overall cr4p fuel economy. On our 100 mile plus commute which is half country road and "A" road and half urban crawl we rarely get over 40mpg usually late 30's giving us a range on a tank of about 380 miles.

On a commute on similar roads, 30 miles each way, we get 50-57mpg.

Annoying seatbelts that are difficult to grab when seated as they are so far back, seats that dont have a memory position so if you move them to access the back you always have to reset your seating position,

We have the 5 door so don't have this problem, but electric memory seats would be great for when we swap who's driving.

cr4p radio reception,

We don't have any problem with radio reception

poor paint quality,

Yep, but to be quite honest I don't think it's that much worse than a lot of similar cars - they're built to such a tight budget now that the manufacturers cut costs wherever they can.

door locks that don't open when you turn off ignition or if you pull handle internally (minor but annoying), no auto lock function when you pull away,

You can set both of these on an 06 model, but Honda removed the option from subsequent years.

rubbish and least intuitive cruise control system I have ever used (the one in my motorhome on a van base is a million times better!),

It's one of the better cruise control systems I've used. I've used much worse on other cars. What don't you like about it?

engine is underpowered and runs out of steam in all gears too quickly, lack of rear wiper seems daft on any hatchback!

I'm not being funny, but you do have to adapt your driving technique to the engine style. I think it has plenty of power, but it does need you to change gear early enough to avoid running out of revs and if you're accelerating hard there is a slight lag when you change up before the turbo kicks in again. I really don't think you can call it underpowered compared to most cars in the same class though. I can't think of many diesel family hatchbacks in the same class that have the same performance.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 6th September 2009, 11:42 Thread Starter
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50 -57mpg on a similar commute? You must be driving Miss Daisy!!!
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 6th September 2009, 11:50
 
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50 -57mpg on a similar commute? You must be driving Miss Daisy!!!
Nope. Most of the time the traffic is fairly heavy, so you can't do more 40-50mph. The Civic is very economical at that speed. If there are overtakes available and there isn't a long line of traffic in front, I take them, but if there is a long line of traffic overtaking is pointless because there's no way of getting to the front of it, meaning we'd just reach the destination one car-length early than we would have done.

If we leave late when the roads are clearer, on the way home we'll cruise at the speed limit where possible.

You can also dramatically improve fuel economy by doing things like watching the traffic ahead for people turning off, or lights turning red. If you come off the gas early when you see something happening, you can slow down without the brakes and the car uses virtually no fuel whilst you're doing that. There is absolutely no difference to how long it takes you to get there, because if you carried on and just used the brakes to slow down later, you end up stopping in the same place at the same time having used more fuel.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 6th September 2009, 11:54
 
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To follow up on my last post, I've just re-read your post and taking into account your rate of tyre wear and poor fuel economy, it honestly sounds like it's down to the way you drive. I'm not saying that's bad, it's up to you how you drive, but if you choose to do things like put your foot down a lot, accelerate hard, brake a lot, etc, you can't expect high MPG and to get a lot of miles out of tyres.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 6th September 2009, 12:31 Thread Starter
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I am IAM qualified and have done extensive driver training so am aware of the points you make with regard to "reading the road". I still don't see how you could get anywhere near those numbers driving in anything other than a mindfully economical way ie not very fast....
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 6th September 2009, 15:27
 
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I am IAM qualified and have done extensive driver training so am aware of the points you make with regard to "reading the road". I still don't see how you could get anywhere near those numbers driving in anything other than a mindfully economical way ie not very fast....
No, not very fast, but as fast as the traffic conditions and speed limit allow. I'm not the only one getting higher MPG than you, as you've already seen from this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf79 View Post
My 2.2 regularly does over 48mpg around town, around 54-58mpg on the motorway and sometimes up to 60mpg on 'A' roads. We always get between 500-600 miles per tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old mans ctr View Post
getting 45-50m.p.g. on similar roads without the urban crawl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatherineJ View Post
The Civic does 43 day in day out.
There are also some other threads that talk about much higher MPG than you're getting, like:

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/engines...-600-tank.html

And you can also look at the results of this survey and filter it by the 2.2 diesel to see that most people get more than you are achieving.

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/survey....results&sid=32

All I'm saying is that it's not the Civic diesel as a model that's the cause of the low fuel economy, and yes it is certainly possible to get the mpg that I do.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 6th September 2009, 20:56
 
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Just returned from Visit to centre of Bath,after receiveing urgent call from daughter,expecting happy event.Left home at 1.20am.Arrived bath 2-30am.70mins,you work out the mileage from Sidmouth.Average 42m.p.g

Very very happy.
You should get to Exmoor sometime.Lots of car reports are from there.

From a rospa gold member, Beat that.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 23rd September 2009, 22:26
 
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what do you get in a bmw , compared to a civic , my ex was 18.5 k and got everything apart from leather what do you get from bmw for the same money. A 3 series is a different class of car, you would put that up against the civic. I have a lead foot but on a run you can get good mpg. I just did Lymm (junction 20 m6) to euro disney paris on a tank, just clicked cruise control at 85mph (540 miles)
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 23rd September 2009, 22:58
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I'm quite surprised at the low fuel economy, I normally get just under 40mpg out of the 1.8.

The lack of memory on the seats is unforgivable, how come Honda can't fit it on the Civic but you get a basic Punto and it's standard fitment. It's one of the main reasons I'd never go for the 3 door.

One thing I can't understand is the criticism for the lack of a rear wiper, did your 320 have one? The rear of the car picks up no more spray than any saloon car.
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