Audi A3 2.0 TDI Vs 07 FN2 - Civinfo
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 15th December 2009, 20:05 Thread Starter
 
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Audi A3 2.0 TDI Vs 07 FN2

Hi all thought I'd give you an update on this test I did today.

I had a meeting down south (200 miles away) and so took the companies 2007 Audi A3 2.0 TDi.




So I drove 400 miles in total & then drove my type r home afterwards. Back to back the differences were obvious. Heres they are:

Honda Wins:
  • Boot Space: A3 has rubbish boot space compared to the Type R
  • Power/acceleration: A3 was slower as expected. However we talk about diesels being more practical in every day driving as no gear changes down are needed - however by the time the turbo had spun up - i could have easily dropped a gear a floored the honda to 8k revs!
  • Torque: Honda's torque and in gear acceleration vs the 2.0tdi seemed just as strong if not stronger (I found this a surprising result)
  • Looks: Honda looks better
  • Handling: Honda handles miles better
  • Ride comfort: Amazingly I thought the ride in the Audi was poo! Soft handling yet fairly crashy. Got in the honda and it felt firmer but much more compliant. surprising...
  • Ownership: I think the honda is much more rewarding to own and fun to drive
A3 Wins:
  • Economy: A3 economy amazing - atleast 650 miles before a refill!
  • Braking: A3 brakes - miles more responsive and powerfull - nearly crashed my honda when I got back in it - felt like someone had smeared oil on them!
  • Radio, AC and interior layout: much better in the A3 - although the better materials didn't seem that much better.
I use to own a 2006 (new shape) Audi A3 1.6.

Despite all of the problems I've had with my type R (and trust me it has ****ed me off!) - I still think its a much better car than the Audi.

I was considering a change to an Audi S3 but after the 2.0TDi experience (granted the 2.0tdi is cheaper than the s3 but it is comparable on price to the type r - so comparison is fair) - I now have serious reservations.

The honda is a really well made piece of kit - and to be fair to honda despite my problems they have fixed all of them under warrenty (other than minor ones like paint and green rear lights).

Whens the next generation or major face lift Type R due out?
-Please base it on the last civic generation life time if unknown.

Hope this was of interest.

Marv

Last edited by Marvintheandroid; 15th December 2009 at 20:10.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 15th December 2009, 20:11
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Very interesting.....

I'm liking the 650 miles before a fill up of fuel! I'm lucky if I get 250 miles out of my CTR....
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 15th December 2009, 21:24
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Great review

These german cars look great but don't live up to the hype when you drive them. I had a 3 series diesel hire car a couple of weeks ago which seemed similar to your assessment of the A3

The BMW diesel turbo lag, low geared / dull steering ,cramped interior and small boot were a big disappointment. The ride, refinement and economy were good.

My CTR was a joy to drive after the BMW
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 15th December 2009, 23:14
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I went from a 04 plate a3 2.0 tdi to my current car 57 CTR and have no regrets what so ever, But i agree about the brakes LOL.

Also the other half has a 58 320d sport coupe good build quality but no fun to drive, Depends what you want from a car i suppose....
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 16th December 2009, 13:27
 
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I had a A4 avant 2.0 tdi 170bhp for a while and to be honest fuel consumption was about 22mpg to 27 bhp. I know its heavier then the CTR but was just dissapointing and not as exciting as I thought my 1.8t A4 cab was better than both
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 16th December 2009, 13:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froggy View Post
I had a A4 avant 2.0 tdi 170bhp for a while and to be honest fuel consumption was about 22mpg to 27 bhp. I know its heavier then the CTR but was just dissapointing and not as exciting as I thought my 1.8t A4 cab was better than both
Turbo's (unless they are the RB26DETT types or the like by other marques etc. etc.) invariably are, particualrly the diesels - (Sorry guys) There is no real grounds to compare Turbo's and N/A's in the first place - furthermore an economy driven diesel (Arguably they are all economy driven - even if they are badged up as Type-S' or Audi S-Lines etc. etc.), against a performance driven petrol - there can only be one winner interms of performance.

Looks like it triumphed in terms of practicality, and appearance too.

Last edited by TypeRiter; 16th December 2009 at 14:38.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 16th December 2009, 13:56
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Diesel vs petrol.. How can you compare..

Also audi interiors are awful, its all square... its like looking at a wall...

I also found that the audi layout was poor, not everything was to hand like the Civic..

the A3 or tather the S3 is a nice car, but its not great, its a VW after all
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 16th December 2009, 18:10
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Mmmm - difficult choice - a 'VAG' product versus a Car ! ...

Personally, I'd rather cut my own wrists than buy or drive (or even be driven in) anything from VAG ...

Not that I'm prejudiced, you understand ...
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 16th December 2009, 18:12
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I've never been an Audi fan at all - so easy choice for me!



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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 16th December 2009, 18:28
 
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i have and will always be a audi/vw fan. but the audi i have always aspired to has been tooooo expensive,they are so cool looking the new audi's,build quality is beyond reproach and in the design department seem to age better than most cars.but the comparison is no comparison hereend of.....stupid really
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 16th December 2009, 18:42
 
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I don't like german cars! They have no character! The Cars with Turbo have no kick! A Japanese Car is amazing to drive! In a german car I wanna sleep!
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 17th December 2009, 09:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullMetaljacket View Post
I don't like german cars! They have no character! The Cars with Turbo have no kick! A Japanese Car is amazing to drive! In a german car I wanna sleep!
Coming from a German, possibly? Refreshing
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 17th December 2009, 11:09
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You say the A3 economy is amazing - does it have a 50ltr tank in it too.
Surprised the Civic beat the A3 in the handling - A lot of people I know love the A3 over the golfs, Astra, Focus for handling they just say its perfect, im surprised you had the civic win there.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 17th December 2009, 23:43 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milano.J View Post
i have and will always be a audi/vw fan. but the audi i have always aspired to has been tooooo expensive,they are so cool looking the new audi's,build quality is beyond reproach and in the design department seem to age better than most cars.but the comparison is no comparison hereend of.....stupid really

The comparison was made in order to compare two ~ £21,000 hatch backs. In many ways the cars are opposites despite their similar description and price points - hence why I thought a comparison might be interesting.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 18th December 2009, 01:32
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I own both an A4 2.0tdi and an fn2. It isn't really fair to compare these two though as the two cars are miles apart and the audi is winner by absolute miles in everything except performance. For those who say the civic is better looking, this is debatable as the civic is striking but the audi looks classy.

To note on the performance though, if you want performance don't piss about with the fn2. In a straight line it's a let down, buy one of the faster hot hatchs. The audi however i expected to be mediocre performance but was actually impressed with it.

However my grandma has a 1.6 A3 and the interior is very very cramped the dash looks mismatched and without the boot doesn't look as good. It also seems slow and very hard on the road.

To sum it up my 1.5year old fn2 is for sale now, my 4 year old audi is not and will not be soon.
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 18th December 2009, 05:45
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reb View Post
I own both an A4 2.0tdi and an fn2. It isn't really fair to compare these two though as the two cars are miles apart and the audi is winner by absolute miles in everything except performance. For those who say the civic is better looking, this is debatable as the civic is striking but the audi looks classy.
.................................................. ..................
The Audi looks old, NOT classy,similiar to it's Golf cousin.The only reason while the other hot hatches are faster in a straight line is because they are force fed.
Is there really that much difference between e.gthe Focus ST,Golf GTI and the FN2 accelerating to say,the 1/4 mile anyhow?
The Audi would not have better handling nor would it have a better shifiting gearbox.
I would also add that the steering feel of the CTR would be superior to the Audi.Audi have the worst steering feel out of all the German brands.
I've haven't driven the S3 but reports have also suggested that the steering is a little "wooden" like.
If you want straight line speed buy a WRX,that will easily dispose of a S3.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 10:30
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I actually like the look of an Audi 3dr, then the civics 3/5dr - the audi 5dr just looks like an estate.
As im only interested in a 5DR car - the civic will win it on looks for me.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 11:37
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Considering all the problems Marvin has had with his Civic I think this is a very interesting review.
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 11:41
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Interesting test. However, I'd like to mention a few points as it's a forum:

I don't see how you could compare the two engines (i know you mentioned price) but ignoring the old petrol vs diesel debate - the 2.0 TDi isn't exactly a sporty example (you didn't mention if it was the 170 model, so i'm assuming it's the 140)

With regards to the torque, I know you mentioned in-gear acceleration but I think you're getting that mixed up with torque - the Type-R's v-tec and higher rev range more than makes up for having almost 100 lbft torque less but it isn't exactly torquey.

I'm also amazed at the ride quality (I know you said you were surprised too) but i've been in a 2.0TDi with 18" wheels and it still felt less crashy than my CTDi with 16" wheels.

And to prove i'm not against the Civic and for the Audi - I absolutely love the audio/ventilation set-up of the Civic, it's close to hand, up near eye-level and quick and easy to use. The A3 ventilation in particular is set a lot lower down and often requires taking your eye of the road for that little bit longer as you look down, especially if it's fitted with climate control rather than just manual air-con.

Please don't think i'm getting at you, just adding my two-bobs worth. I love comparison tests. Especially as they are more accurate than the ones you see in the likes of What Car or Auto Express.

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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 13:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvintheandroid View Post
  • Torque: Honda's torque and in gear acceleration vs the 2.0tdi seemed just as strong if not stronger (I found this a surprising result)
  • Handling: Honda handles miles better
  • Ride comfort: Amazingly I thought the ride in the Audi was poo! Soft handling yet fairly crashy. Got in the honda and it felt firmer but much more compliant. surprising...
Interesting.

I'm surprised the A3 didn't feel brisker at half revs. Both are the same weight, and the Audi is making 100-120 bhp there, while the Civic about 80 to 100 (you just can't use torque figures to compare, because they are skewed by rpm and gearboxes). It may well be that the "butt dyno" is influenced by the superior sound and feel of the Civic.

And I too have yet to find an Audi that rides and handles nicely. VAG seem to get a nice compromise going with the VW/Skoda cars and then Audi just make them harder and say "there you go, now it is sporty".
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