Brakes issue - help please - Civinfo
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 10th June 2019, 19:12 Thread Starter
 
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Brakes issue - help please

Hi guys, I was wondering whether anyone had a similar issue to mine, or might know what the cause is.

I'm a new owner of a 20k km Civic FN2 which was hardly used as one can image. I noticed that when the car is started, the brake pedal can be slowly be pushed down to the floor. When the car is turned off, the the brake is stiff and cannot be pushed down. While driving, sometimes when the brake is pushed hard, around 70% of the pedal travel becomes really soft, and brakes only work when the pedal is pushed more than the remaining 70%. The pedal's response and stifness becomes once again normal after a couple of kilometers of driving.

I've checked the brake pads, bled the brakes from all 4 calipers, and noted that brake fluid isn't decreasing after a long drive, therefore there are no fluid leaks. I don't have any faults showing up on the dash. I've talked to 2 different mechanics, but both have different opinions. One said that this is probably a brake master cylinder issue (and recommended to get this changed, or purchase a master cylinder repair kit), while the other said that this is probably an ABS motor issue (I'm hoping it's not since this is quite expensive to repair or get changed).

Any help please?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 10th June 2019, 19:35
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Hmm, By bled the fluid, have you just bled enough to check for air, or done a full change?

Sounds like it could be boiling - That and it's a cheap and easy point to eliminate first!
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 10th June 2019, 19:49 Thread Starter
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Only bled to remove air bubbles... good point though thanks... worth a try
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 11th June 2019, 04:27
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 11th June 2019, 10:34
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Had a similar issue years ago on a 330d bmw. one day went into a 'S' bend brake pedal went nearly to the floor before it started to brake.


Went to the mechanics and he said the fluid would need changing as it prob was in from new, after he changed the fluid, he explained it was almost like water, as over time it degrades and stops doing what it needs to do.


May or not be the same issue, but worth a try as you can change it yourself with little tools or experience and rule it out as Haltamer suggests
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 11th June 2019, 14:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haltamer View Post
Sounds like it could be boiling - That and it's a cheap and easy point to eliminate first!
Sound unlikely as OP said
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg.stv View Post
I noticed that when the car is started, the brake pedal can be slowly be pushed down to the floor. When the car is turned off, the the brake is stiff and cannot be pushed down.
Although a brake fluid change is a cheap 'n easy starting point for brake problems.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 11th June 2019, 17:59
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+1 for a complete fluid change.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 12th June 2019, 14:04
 
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Sounds like it's old brake fluid.

Brake fluid should be changed every 2 years as it deteriorates over time and becomes less effective. Just do a complete brake fluid drain and replacement with new, good quality Dot 4 fluid. You want to drain each caliper also. I personally draw about 75ml of brake fluid out of each caliper to ensure new fluid is drawn in and any old fluid is removed.

It may also be that someone had used Dot 5 fluid in there are one point. Dot 5 is known to perish the rubber hosing in some instances, so I would also check those when going to replace the fluid.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 12th June 2019, 17:34 Thread Starter
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Thanks so much guys... will try changing the fluid next Sunday... will keep you posted
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 12th June 2019, 23:25
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sounds like fluid is being pushed past the piston seal in the master cylinder to me

even if the break fluid is old and knackered with water contamination it still shouldn't compress to a point the pedal can be pushed to the floor, liquid doesn't really compress so it must be going somewhere.
if it's not leaking out anywhere it must be something internal and that usually happens in the master cylinder

changing the fluid might re vitalise the seal with pumping the old fluid out and new fluid in and appear to solve the problem but i think it will be a short lived thing

or...

there's still air in the system
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 13th June 2019, 07:49
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I'm with Cosmicma on this one. If the pedal goes down, the fluid must be going somewhere. And although a change of fluid might fix it, I doubt it. (but it's cheaper than a new master cylinder)
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 13th June 2019, 11:21
 
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If it’s happening on start up then it’s not water in the BF. The brakes aren’t hot enough to boil the water and turn it into compressible steam.

I’d be looking towards the master cylinder/ seals. Even more so with a low mileage car. The seals go hard over time then crack when used again.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 16th June 2019, 19:18 Thread Starter
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Hi guys, thanks so much for your input.
I've changed all the brake fluid this morning and took the car out for a spin, although now the pedal isn't going soft all of a sudden as it was before (and brakes feel more responsive), once the car is started I could still push the pedal almost all the way down... even though it's hard to push. I think I'll order a brake master cylinder seal kit next as suggested. Brake fluid definitely needed changing though since it was pretty watery and dark.

Do you guys have a preferred site that has genuine parts and ships internationally by any chance?
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 16th June 2019, 20:36
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Cox is probably the best place; I'd opt for OEM given it's a relatively important bit - If you contact them they should be able to arrange shipping.

https://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/delivery-information/
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