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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
...Part 1: The Contenders?

Having opened this can of worms in the above post I thought I'd probably best make some effort to put the lid back on so I’ll attempt to do that here...

Coming from a 14MY 1.6 SE i-dtec; economy is obviously a big concern, but its not the only one. During my time running the 9th gen Diesel I decided to let go of my fully loaded Boxster 3.2 S.

The SGP 1.5 Sport has now got a good few miles on the clock and even though I don't consider it to be fully loosened up yet. I've already gathered some reasonably seasoned impressions along with a moderately well qualified set of thoughts to share with you all. But before that…


Part 2: Seconds Away

I've written fairly extensively about the 9th 1.6 i-dtec elsewhere on this forum but I'll summarise by saying; brilliant engine and exceptional drivetrain but poorly conceived suspension and inadequate soundproofing. Genuinely good but honestly; not actually as great as it should have been. Pleasingly innovative but annoyingly flawed. Astonishingly economical but frustratingly cheapened in some crucial areas.

On balance my overall measure of satisfaction with that car was definitely around the upper quartile. This being held back more by what I would characterise as typical accountancy based decision making rather than any shortfall in Honda's engineering prowess. Shame about the poor rear suspension and excessively noisy cabin. But top marks for bulletproof reliability and at least halfway to decent servicing and repair costs.

As for the Boxster this is not the place to go on about it. But taking into account that almost every trip to the dealership was hugely expensive this eventually took the shine off it. It was a great shame about all the very many electrical and mechanical failures. And if you're of average height or above; the badly compromised seating position ruined journeys any longer than an hour or so.

So not much good to say about either then; in fact, quite the contrary!

On a dry day with the hood down just going out for a short run in the countryside and enjoying the odd quick but expensive blast - great job Porsche.

In the wet just going economically about your daily doings in warmth and security while managing to maintain at least some sense of fun - good work Honda.

Try to swap duties for the two and while either should have been able to get at least a jolly good part of the way. Neither really could but together or apart they each ought to have done so much better.

Perhaps the one consistent theme here is that some arbitrary corporate definition of good enough really just isn't; because only a little bit better would be all the more equitable and ultimately, I suggest, more profitable.

Part 3: The Last Leg

Worldwide I think the basic message to Honda from their 9th generation customers was - please do try harder. Well obviously they listened and it does indeed seem they have. But did they try hard enough?

Time moves on for all of us. For my own part, despite any overt disparities, I'll happily lump the 10g CTR and a Boxster S into the same cost performance ballpark i.e. no longer particularly of relevance. Equally; I'll also risk a grouping by the same criteria for the 10g 1.0 and the 9th 1.6 i-dtec. This on the basis that I've done the extreme economy thing and hypermiling out to 77 mpg; whilst still amusing, challenging and occasionally satisfying; has kind of lost its appeal.

Given my car history and present day perspective it quite naturally leaves the new 1.5 Sport sat somewhere in the middle of all that and as such; very interestingly placed indeed.

So in the case of the 10g which we may agree to define as an affordable drivers car i.e. one usable over and above the purposes of utilitarian transport but also one being less than a piece of excessively expensive, status advertising, vehicular badge jewellery. For most buyers; what makes such a car great and what makes a great car an excellent all-round proposition?

There are, of course, no objective criteria but it's surely not extreme outright performance and neither is it economy, comfort, bling or the over emphasis of any single unidimensional parameter. No, the answer is to be found in the total driving experience which is mediated by how well a manufacturer has succeeded in making those crucial qualities, consciously or otherwise, preferred by the driver readily apprehensible.

This, of course, applies even if the prospective owner/driver is unaware of same. Undoubtedly several of these qualities are generic and as such can be grouped to form some kind of loosely weighted multiple constraints satisfaction matrix. For quite a while now, in no particularly firm ordering, mine has been something like this:

Great fun but never actually scary to drive; with solidly competent but still natural feeling handling which is predictable in the limits and safe in extremis, good traction with stable body control and smoothly progressive road holding, precisely ratioed well weighted steering, reasonably quick off the line but even faster to stop, moderately quiet, realistically comfortable, sensibly practical, responsibly economical, of attractive and interesting appearance and reliable in service with affordable purchase, maintenance and repair costs.

I'll happily settle for all of the above just as long as it comes with critically well matched proportions of two often mutually exclusive characteristics. Firstly that accompanying the inevitably larger fun factor arising from any no-nonsense increases in performance there is also a clear sense of improved substance and sophistication that is thoroughly well integrated into each of the preceding categories. Secondly that any additional weight necessary to produce this extra performance does not detract from front end dexterity nor allows the rear to get unduly pendular. But instead somehow very cleverly gives rise to an impression of neutrality, maturity and even greater ability to safely exploit said performance on the road.

I think you may be able to guess just how well the 2017 1.5 Civic Sport measures up against the above criteria? In short; by and large, in all the ways that matter most it aces nearly all of them. And even after that; it remains clearly apparent why not and where the main money was spent.

One curious phenomenon which emerges early on in a first drive is that despite external appearances of being much larger in size and contrary to the far roomier impression of increased internal space of the new cabin layout. Counter even to the larger physical dimensions clearly specified as it being bigger than the 9g. Once underway the 10g car quite literally seems to shrink down to a size that's very well suited to UK roads.

However, the 10g Sport is, as you may reasonably anticipate; in truth, a little less than perfect .

Partly because not everything is actually better than on the 9g. For instance, the gear-shift is markedly less precise. It is still a Honda but its looser, longer and noisier. In the forward region of the center console under the dash there is no buffer pad. So the outside of a taller drivers left knee frequently and most uncomfortably finds the sharp outward angled joining edges of two hard plastic trims. This is only slightly painful when wearing trousers but intolerable in shorts.

The seat fabric is a serious step down from the plush velour of the 9th gen and for some the squab will be too short and is oddly angled slightly too far downwards towards the front. The seat cushioning is, to say the least, somewhat reduced. Even to the point of being positively bum numbingly over-firm. And unless you are a person of very large proportions the bolstering is too far removed from being properly positioned to do its job. In the upper reach of the driver's seat back there is a mid-line forward hump that is seriously incompatible with any seat-back angle and lumbar support settings that I can find.

It seems pointless to go on about the missing volume knob, the absent subwoofer or the significantly reduced quality audio system. Another thing to keep an eye out for is the genuinely suspect fabric quality on the center console and door armrests. In the summer when wearing a T-shirt under even a small amount of elbow weight it can actually remove skin and is astoundingly difficult to keep looking clean.

The clever sliding cargo area parcel cover is novel and convenient but conspicuously lacks the soundproofing capabilities of the conventional type of shelf that we are all so used to.

It seems Honda has not fitted the compressed composite felt soundproof linings which were present in the 9g front wheel-arch voids. Maybe these are still be there in the 10g higher trims? But in any event the Sport has only an undamped rattly piece of plastic to sound off in multi-modal anharmonic resonances with the various wet and dry forces of nature that are routinely tortured under there.

So where is the line to be drawn? And given the foregoing why would anyone ever buy such?

The only useful answer is that; on aggregate, it’s a much much better car and very enjoyable to drive. As testament to this I can in all conscience say with total sincerity that I simply no longer miss the Boxster. Staying within the law; the Sport does almost every bit as well in all the places and in all the ways that I ever drove it.

Over the 9th the 10th Sport’s ride is massively improved and the way it sits going along any decently surfaced carriageway is near flawless. On poor roadstone tyre noise is still apparent but definitely reduced. The rear suspension is genuinely world class and the car rides over anything except the very worst of potholes without any serious upset at all.

The steering is entirely fit for purpose, body roll is negligible. Handling is wholly on par with what once would have been a really proper sports car. But without the obligatory chiropractor’s bill.
Road holding is frankly phenomenal, levels of grip truly remarkable, the brakes are extremely capable and for road use, more than amply sufficient.

After dark; c
ompared with the adequate Halogen's on the 9th, the excellent HID's on the Boxster or indeed the headlights on any other car I've ever driven these Honda LED units are quite superior. If you drive at night and are considering the 10g do yourself a big favour and make sure that on this point, if no other, any purchasing decision is properly informed.

The car is great fun to drive, trustworthy, confidence inspiring and to many; even good looking. On balance some of the shortfalls listed above may be remedied by moving up a trim level but be aware that the due to the almost drum-skin tightness of the leather; whilst some aspects may improve, others will not.

For those who may be wondering; I’d be more inclined to place the sport that bit closer to the Boxster than to the 9th Civic and that’s why I bought it. But like all things it’s not without its compromises.

Could Honda have made this car just right for the money? There’s no doubt whatsoever in my mind that were it not for their larger markets having a premium brand product differential to protect then yes.

Worldwide, the cost to them for doing so would have been minimal and well below the noise levels of their internal accounting margins. That they will, due to competition, have to remedy some of these issues during this model's lifetime is, I believe, inevitable. I just wish they could have shown their first round of loyal customers, at least in some part, a slightly higher measure of kind consideration and genuine goodwill.

So, what’s not to like about all that then?

I’ll leave the final call up to you…
 

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...Part 1: The Contenders?

Having opened this can of worms in the above post I thought I'd probably best make some effort to put the lid back on so I’ll attempt to do that here...

Coming from a 14MY 1.6 SE i-dtec; economy is obviously a big concern, but its not the only one. During my time running the 9th gen Diesel I decided to let go of my Boxster 3.2 S.

The SGP 1.5 Sport has now got a good few miles on the clock and even though I don't consider it to be fully loosened up yet. I've already gathered some reasonably seasoned impressions along with a moderately well qualified set of thoughts to share with you all. But before that…


Part 2: Seconds Away

I've written fairly extensively about the 9th 1.6 i-dtec elsewhere on this forum but I'll summarise by saying; brilliant engine and exceptional drivetrain but poorly conceived suspension and inadequate soundproofing. Genuinely good but honestly; not actually as great as it should have been. Pleasingly innovative but annoyingly flawed. Astonishingly economical but frustratingly cheapened in some crucial areas.

On balance my overall measure of satisfaction with that car was definitely around the upper quartile. This being held back more by what I would characterise as typical accountancy based decision making rather than any shortfall in Honda's engineering prowess. Shame about the poor rear suspension and excessively noisy cabin. But top marks for bulletproof reliability and at least halfway to decent servicing and repair costs.

As for the Boxster this is not the place to go on about it. But taking into account that almost every trip to the dealership was hugely expensive eventually took the shine off it. It was a great shame about all the very many electrical and mechanical failures. And if you're of average height or above; the badly compromised seating position ruined journeys any longer than an hour or so.

So not much good to say about either then; in fact, quite the contrary!

On a dry day with the hood down just going out for a short run in the countryside and enjoying the odd quick but expensive blast - great job Porsche.

In the wet just going economically about your daily doings in warmth and security while managing to maintain at least some sense of fun - good work Honda.

Try to swap duties for the two and while either should have been able to get at least a jolly good part of the way. Neither really could but together or apart they each ought to have done so much better.

Perhaps the one consistent theme here is that some arbitrary corporate definition of good enough really just isn't; because only a little bit better would be all the more equitable and ultimately, I suggest, more profitable.

Part 3: The Last Leg

Worldwide I think the basic message to Honda from their 9th generation customers was - please do try harder. Well obviously they listened and it does indeed seem they did. But did they try hard enough?

Time moves on for all of us. For my own part, despite any overt disparities, I'll happily lump the 10g CTR and a Boxster S into the same cost performance ballpark i.e. no longer particularly of relevance. Equally; I'll also risk a grouping by the same criteria for the 10g 1.0 and the 9th 1.6 i-dtec. This on the basis that I've done the extreme economy thing and hypermiling out to 77 mpg; whilst still amusing, challenging and occasionally satisfying; has kind of lost its appeal.

Given my car history and present day perspective it quite naturally leaves the new 1.5 Sport sat somewhere in the middle of all that and as such; very interestingly placed indeed.

So in the case of a the 10g which we may agree to define as a drivers car i.e. one usable over and above the purposes of utilitarian transport but also one being less than a piece of excessively expensive, status advertising, vehicular badge jewellery. For most; what makes such a car great and what makes a great car an excellent all-round proposition?

There are, of course, no objective criteria but it's surely not extreme outright performance and neither is it economy, comfort, bling or the over emphasis of any single unidimensional parameter. No, the answer is to be found in the total driving experience which is mediated by how well a manufacturer has succeeded in making those crucial qualities, consciously or otherwise, preferred by the driver readily apprehensible.

This, of course, applies even if the prospective owner/driver is unaware of same. Undoubtedly several of these qualities are generic and as such can be grouped to form some kind of loosely weighted multiple constraints satisfaction matrix. For quite a while now, in no particularly firm ordering, mine has been something like this:

Great fun but never actually scary to drive; with solidly competent but still natural feeling handling which is predictable in the limits and safe in extremis, good traction with stable body control and smoothly progressive road holding, precisely ratioed well weighted steering, reasonably quick off the line but even faster to stop, moderately quiet, realistically comfortable, sensibly practical, responsibly economical, of attractive and interesting appearance and reliable in service with affordable purchase, maintenance and repair costs.

I'll happily settle for all of the above just as long as it comes with critically well matched proportions of two often mutually exclusive characteristics. Firstly that accompanying the inevitably larger fun factor arising from any no-nonsense increases in performance there is also a clear sense of improved substance and sophistication that is thoroughly well integrated into each of the preceding categories. Secondly that any additional weight necessary to produce this extra performance does not detract from front end dexterity nor allows the rear to get unduly pendular. But instead somehow very cleverly gives rise to an impression of neutrality, maturity and even greater ability to safely exploit said performance on the road.

I think you may be able to guess just how well the 2017 1.5 Civic Sport measures up against the above criteria? In short; by and large, in all the ways that matter most it aces nearly all of them and even after that; it remains clearly apparent why not and where the main money was spent.

One curious phenomenon which emerges early on in a first drive is that despite external appearances of being much larger in size and contrary to the far roomier impression of increased internal space of the new cabin layout. Counter even to the larger physical dimensions clearly specified as it being bigger than the 9g. Once underway the 10g car quite literally seems to shrink down to a size that's very well suited to UK roads.

However, the 10g Sport is, as you may reasonably anticipate; in truth, a little less than perfect .

Partly because not everything is actually better than on the 9g. For instance, the gear-shift is markedly less precise. It is still a Honda but its looser, longer and noisier. In the forward region of the center console under the dash there is no buffer pad so the outside of a taller drivers left knee frequently and most uncomfortably finds the sharp outward angled joining edges of two hard plastic trims. This is only slightly painful when wearing trousers but intolerable in shorts.

The seat fabric is a serious step down from the plush velour of the 9th gen and for some the squab will be too short and is oddly angled slightly too far downwards towards the front. The seat cushioning is, to say the least, somewhat reduced to the point of being positively bum numbingly over firm. And unless you are a person of very large proportions the bolstering is too far removed from being properly positioned to do its job. In the upper reach of the driver's seat back there is a mid-line forward hump that is seriously incompatible with any seat-back angle and lumbar support settings that I can find.

It seems pointless to go on about the missing volume knob, the absent subwoofer or the significantly reduced quality audio system. Another thing to keep an eye out for is the genuinely suspect fabric quality on the center console and door armrests. In the summer when wearing a T-shirt under even a small amount of elbow weight it can actually remove skin and is astoundingly difficult to keep looking clean.

The clever sliding cargo area parcel cover is novel and convenient but conspicuously lacks the soundproofing capabilities of the conventional type of shelf that we are all so used to.

It seems Honda has not fitted the compressed composite felt soundproof linings which were present in the 9g front wheel-arch voids and may still be there in the 10g higher trims? In any event the Sport has only an undamped rattly piece of plastic to sound off in multi-modal anharmonic resonances with the various wet and dry forces of nature that are routinely tortured under there.

So where is the line to be drawn? And given the foregoing why would anyone ever buy such?
The only useful answer is that on aggregate it’s a much much better car and very enjoyable to drive. As testament to this I can in all conscience say with total sincerity that I simply no longer miss the Boxster. Staying within the law; the Sport does almost every bit as well in all the places and all the ways that I ever drove it.

Over the 9th the 10th Sport’s ride is massively improved and the way it sits going along any decently surfaced carriageway is near flawless. On poor roadstone tyre noise is still apparent but definitely reduced. The rear suspension is genuinely world class and the car rides over anything except the very worst of potholes without any serious upset at all.

The steering is entirely fit for purpose, body roll is negligible. Handling is way up there with what once would have been a really proper sports car. But without the obligatory chiropractor’s bill.

Road holding is frankly phenomenal, levels of grip truly remarkable, the brakes are extremely capable and for road use, more than amply sufficient. The car is great fun, trustworthy, confidence inspiring and to many even good looking. For those wondering; I’d be more inclined to place the sport that bit closer to the Boxster than the 9th Civic and that’s why I bought it.

But like all things it’s not without its compromises; howsoever unwarranted. Could Honda have made this car just right for the money? There’s no doubt whatsoever in my mind that were it not for their larger markets having a premium brand product differential to protect then yes. Worldwide, the cost to them in doing so would have been minimal and well below the noise levels of their internal accounting margins.

So what’s not to like about all that then?

I’ll leave the final call up to you…
Great review, what's not to like.... Recent ncap test results for me.

Sent from my Swift 2 X using Tapatalk
 

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Thanks for your detailed review. Many of the points you mentioned I found out during my 100 km test ride as well (Sport+).

I won't miss the volume knob however. My replacement Android unit doesn't have one and I'm always using the steering wheel controls, even was before switching to the Android.

I hope the Type R will be just as pleasant - because that's what I'm really after.
 

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Excellent review; Very detailed analysis and comparison of many of the most important parts for me.

I'm disappointed to hear about the interior:- Even on my 9th gen, I'm looking to find a Alcantra cover for my centre console armrest, as the fabric is sanding off my elbow skin :laugh2:

It sounds as though they have focused away slightly from the luxury components that make long cruises comfortable in some ways, with the reduction in sound proofing and lacklustre audio quality.

Hopefully some of this will be ironed out in later revisions, as production continues, or in their premium trims.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Great review, what's not to like.... Recent ncap test results for me.

Sent from my Swift 2 X using Tapatalk
Thanks.

I agree that already having bought the car this is an unfortunate thing to discover.

Do you think they will re-issue the rear head restraints?

Would that be enough to get the 5 stars?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for your detailed review. Many of the points you mentioned I found out during my 100 km test ride as well (Sport+).

I won't miss the volume knob however. My replacement Android unit doesn't have one and I'm always using the steering wheel controls, even was before switching to the Android.

I hope the Type R will be just as pleasant - because that's what I'm really after.

You're very welcome, I hope it was useful.

The volume knob is a bit of a non-issue for me too even though I mostly listen to DAB.

When I look at today's Type R and reflect on past purchases I can't help but think it's actually a quite an excellent value proposition.

I'm sure it will be great fun...
 

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Thanks.

I agree that already having bought the car this is an unfortunate thing to discover.

Do you think they will re-issue the rear head restraints?

Would that be enough to get the 5 stars?
The primary purpose of my car is to transport the family. I know they're young enough to still require high backed booster seats, however I do feel dismayed the car hasn't achieved the higher rating.

Re the rear head restraints, not sure to be honest. I know Honda are generally a good company who don't tend to brush issues under the carpet, thinking of airbags here. Hopefully they will recall. The car already competes in a difficult sector, I think it could harm sales potentially.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Excellent review; Very detailed analysis and comparison of many of the most important parts for me.

I'm disappointed to hear about the interior:- Even on my 9th gen, I'm looking to find a Alcantra cover for my centre console armrest, as the fabric is sanding off my elbow skin :laugh2:

It sounds as though they have focused away slightly from the luxury components that make long cruises comfortable in some ways, with the reduction in sound proofing and lacklustre audio quality.

Hopefully some of this will be ironed out in later revisions, as production continues, or in their premium trims.
I'm pleased you found it relevant.

If there's anything more I could have pointed out over what I have written it would be either well hidden or very minor. However, I could have done quite a few extra pages on just how good the car really is.

I'm not well enough informed to be able to compare and contrast all the various build/trim/option fitments so my commentary can really only be read in the context of the Sport. I do know that the audio system in the higher trims is supposed to be a good deal better. IIRC it sounded that way to me. If you are concerned just investigate the next trim up?

While they still have the new Accord from their Acura brand in the USA I think they will always want the Civic to be seen as the poor relative.

I'm not sure how long the CHB will have to wait for a mid cycle refresh as they don't seem to be able to make enough for the overseas markets. Sales volumes would probably have to be severely disrupted by a new competitive product or for them to do this soon...
 

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Oh, I don't expect a full refresh any time soon either; I'm thinking more along the lines of the usual Model Year adjustments that are seen as time goes on. With the debate raging Re. Safety scores in the back, I wouldn't be surprised if they did make some small adjustments as time passes, encompassing things such as the soundproofing in the cabin and the rear seat geometry.

I'm on the border between an audio snob and an "I can't hear the difference anyway" :)worms:) which I why I noted your comments regarding the audio; I'm quite happy with what I have in the SE+ Navi 9th Gen (W/O Optional extra speakers); but I do find at the higher volume levels it can blow out highs and lows; not a big issue for me personally as I stick around ~8 -> 12 for volume levels, rather than share my musical tastes with the high street :p
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Overall agreement...

...

Just to say that after 2 and a half months I still look forward to every drive:smile3:
...
with one plain observation and a very simple theory.

Having puzzled over this for several months now. But without complete qualification due to lack of any real winter driving. In making a broad brush, high level comparison between this car with 3K+ miles and my 9th 1.6 diesel with 20K+. Both driven on the same 'regular commuting route'.

As a headline; without question overall the 1.5 Sport is by far the more enjoyable. A preliminary conclusion as to why is because it is consistently much less stressful to drive.

The precise reasons for this are not yet entirely clear; any ideas?
...
 

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...
with one plain observation and a very simple theory.

Having puzzled over this for several months now. But without complete qualification due to lack of any real winter driving. In making a broad brush, high level comparison between this car with 3K+ miles and my 9th 1.6 diesel with 20K+. Both driven on the same 'regular commuting route'.

As a headline; without question overall the 1.5 Sport is by far the more enjoyable. A preliminary conclusion as to why is because it is consistently much less stressful to drive.

The precise reasons for this are not yet entirely clear; any ideas?
...
Engineered properly.

Sent from my Swift 2 X using Tapatalk
 

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...
no doubt. But what aspect in particular reduces stress?

Is design even more important i.e. forward visibility?

...
To me it's the feel of the car and how everything gels.

Sent from my Swift 2 X using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
That was never in question...

To me it's the feel of the car and how everything gels.

Sent from my Swift 2 X using Tapatalk
...

certainly most would agree that, to drive, the 10g is very obviously 'all of a piece'. What has interested me though is understanding why and which aspects matter the most?

Leaving the power train aside for a moment. Having now given a great deal of thought to the question of what it is, when going from a 9g to 10g car, that so substantially reduces a driver's stress. In comparing those actual driving experiences for cause, working from memory, here's my best shot at it:

Primarily; it seems, the 10g cabin's physical layout, particularly the relationship between seating location, window height and A pillar placement, thickness and angle collectively contribute to making a driver's knowledge of where the car's 'edges' are positioned on the road so much easier to discern than in the 9g. When driving a 10g car these key dimensional elements of the design create a crucially important, effortlessly intuitive quality. Taken together with some allowance for any improvements in centre of gravity; these are probably the foremost set of contributors to the reduction of a driver's stress level.

Secondly; these ergonomic benefits then combine with the progressively geared steering to make any adjustments in the car's position on the road very well matched to the magnitude of the driver's input. While this is happening the new suspension components not only maintain greater tyre contact but also better damp down over-reactive body movement; any of which would require additional corrective input from the driver and add to their stress.

Thirdly; these components all act in conjunction with the stiffer chassis to absorb any flexure related deflections from road surface irregularities which would otherwise cause deviation from the driver's chosen line thereby increasing stress through further steering adjustments.

Although like most I 'knew' it all from moment one. It was still a surprise to discover how much less stressful this car is when compared not only with the 9g but also my previous Volvo V40. Even so it has still taken quite a while to clearly 'understand' why.

All very clever indeed and extremely well done Honda!

...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Time and tide...

it has been said, waits for no man.

And so. Now, it seems, mine here is just about up...

My unreserved thanks for the enthusiasm, fun and witty well informed commentary.

In the final analysis; even beyond performance, roadholding and all that good stuff. It may well be that stress per se becomes the final arbiter in automotive choice?

That's the current conclusion anyhoo. So am settling back into a smart and comfy Lexus UX which is lively but quiet, safe, competent and compliant. The car does most of the work leaving that which remains; simply to be enjoyed.

To those who have been kind and engaging. Thank you.

Good luck in all your adventures.

Farewell and Bon Voyage...
 

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it has been said, waits for no man.

And so. Now, it seems, mine here is just about up...

My unreserved thanks for the enthusiasm, fun and witty well informed commentary.

In the final analysis; even beyond performance, roadholding and all that good stuff. It may well be that stress per se becomes the final arbiter in automotive choice?

That's the current conclusion anyhoo. So am settling back into a smart and comfy Lexus UX which is lively but quiet, safe, competent and compliant. The car does most of the work leaving that which remains; simply to be enjoyed.

To those who have been kind and engaging. Thank you.

Good luck in all your adventures.

Farewell and Bon Voyage...
All the best, will miss your writing style, always had fun dicphering the style you use

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
 
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