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Discussion Starter #1
I am experiencing battery drain with my 2009 Civic, 2.2 Diesel Ex model. From the internet searches I have done I am led to believe that I am far from alone! It's a real shame, as my car is otherwise great, and I'd really like to resolve the problem.

I bought my car at a few months over 3 years old in June 2012, as good as new, after it had undoubtedly crawled just 12,000 miles in those 3 years by a registered disabled driver. Its now a few weeks away from its 5 year service and still only has 25,000 miles on the clock.

When I got the car it had a Bosch battery in it from a car parts market, not the manufacturer original. I flattened the battery within 20-30 minutes by sitting on my driveway setting it all up without the engine running. I would drive 10 minutes each way to work and back. Plus one 5 minute each way trip to Tesco at the weekend. Once a month the car would get a two 3 hour motorway thrashes. The car just about survived this ok, until one day about a year ago I didn't park well at home, started the engine to re-park and when I next came to start it, it wouldnt. The AA failed the battery and replaced it with their recommended one.

Since then the car has performed better, but still unsatisfactorily. I changed jobs and walk to work, at the moment the car gets a two 8-10 minute runs on a Monday, two 8-10 minute runs on a Wednesday and two 12-15 minute runs on a Saturday. In the winter I accidentally left the automatic wipers on, the battery flattened in 2 days and I had to get the AA to jump start the car, but the battery didn't need replacement.

I bought a Ring Automotive mains powered jump starter as a result in frustration and I've need to use it once since then after leaving the car for a week. I always turn off the radio and air conditioning when I stop the car, never use the automatic lights, don't use the bluetooth and since the second AA visit always push up once on my wiper control to check I haven't knocked the automatic wipers on that I rarely use.

Last weekend I didn't do my usual Saturday trip. When I came to start the car on Monday evening, 5 days after its last drive, it only just managed to start (taking a little longer and with the dashboard lights taking big dips).

Whilst I appreciate I don't give the car the daily drive modern cars ultimately want, this battery life is unnaceptable. I'd have zero confidence leaving this car in an airport carpark for a week that it would start on my return.

Today I pulled out the fuses in the internal and external fuse boxes
Fuse box list:
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/electro...protected.html

I connected my multimeter at the negative terminal in series. I'm not hugely familiar with multimeters, but whenever the red lead is in the V-Ohm-mA I get a zero reading (on any setting). I'm led to believe this is because multimeters have a large impedence even when in a current measuring mode and that they typically have an in-built "shunt" to get around this within their 10A socket. Can anyone confirm?

With my red lead in the 10A socket and black lead in the COM socket I see the following (no units on screen):

10A setting: 0.5
200m setting: 5.5
20m setting: 0.55

Without fully understanding this, I'm thinking I've got a 0.5A or 500mA draw on my battery?

Apart from external fuses 1,2 & 3 that were too stubborn to come out after removing their screws and two big "12V" rated items at the top of the external fuse box that don't have numbers, I worked through all of the fuses. My partner took the measurements as I pulled each fuse in turn and the only one that made any change was #17 in the external box, for the interior light, which took the reading from 0.55 to 0.52 on the 20m multimeter setting.

When I took the internal fuse box readings I had the car door open and the values all stabilised at 1.25 instead of 0.55 (again on the 20m setting). If I pushed the door-close button with my hand the value would immediately drop to 0.55.

Aside from things like leaving the automatic lights and wipers on, most explanations I see suggest a faulty MICU or HFT/Bluetooth module are to blame. I know that early Civics of this car's generation were recalled for MICU / fusebox issues, but my car is recall-free from online checks.

Can anyone confirm if my understanding of the multimeter readings is correct and that the current draw looks too high? (50mA generally an acceptable top limit?).

Can anyone tell me which fuse the HFT/Bluetooth circuit uses?

Any thoughts or ideas on where to look next?
 

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#MrGrumpy
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Without fully understanding this, I'm thinking I've got a 0.5A or 500mA draw on my battery?

Definitely looks like it.
I don't think there was a recall for the ECU update, so I'd speak to Honda about getting that done.

Did you also check the interior fuse box in the driver footwell?
Just saw that you did... really puzzled on that tbh.
Is there any difference when you have the wipers/lights on "auto"?
 

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I am experiencing battery drain with my 2009 Civic, 2.2 Diesel Ex model. From the internet searches I have done I am led to believe that I am far from alone! It's a real shame, as my car is otherwise great, and I'd really like to resolve the problem.

I bought my car at a few months over 3 years old in June 2012, as good as new, after it had undoubtedly crawled just 12,000 miles in those 3 years by a registered disabled driver. Its now a few weeks away from its 5 year service and still only has 25,000 miles on the clock.

When I got the car it had a Bosch battery in it from a car parts market, not the manufacturer original. I flattened the battery within 20-30 minutes by sitting on my driveway setting it all up without the engine running. I would drive 10 minutes each way to work and back. Plus one 5 minute each way trip to Tesco at the weekend. Once a month the car would get a two 3 hour motorway thrashes. The car just about survived this ok, until one day about a year ago I didn't park well at home, started the engine to re-park and when I next came to start it, it wouldnt. The AA failed the battery and replaced it with their recommended one.

Since then the car has performed better, but still unsatisfactorily. I changed jobs and walk to work, at the moment the car gets a two 8-10 minute runs on a Monday, two 8-10 minute runs on a Wednesday and two 12-15 minute runs on a Saturday. In the winter I accidentally left the automatic wipers on, the battery flattened in 2 days and I had to get the AA to jump start the car, but the battery didn't need replacement.

I bought a Ring Automotive mains powered jump starter as a result in frustration and I've need to use it once since then after leaving the car for a week. I always turn off the radio and air conditioning when I stop the car, never use the automatic lights, don't use the bluetooth and since the second AA visit always push up once on my wiper control to check I haven't knocked the automatic wipers on that I rarely use.

Last weekend I didn't do my usual Saturday trip. When I came to start the car on Monday evening, 5 days after its last drive, it only just managed to start (taking a little longer and with the dashboard lights taking big dips).

Whilst I appreciate I don't give the car the daily drive modern cars ultimately want, this battery life is unnaceptable. I'd have zero confidence leaving this car in an airport carpark for a week that it would start on my return.

Today I pulled out the fuses in the internal and external fuse boxes
Fuse box list:
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/electro...protected.html

I connected my multimeter at the negative terminal in series. I'm not hugely familiar with multimeters, but whenever the red lead is in the V-Ohm-mA I get a zero reading (on any setting). I'm led to believe this is because multimeters have a large impedence even when in a current measuring mode and that they typically have an in-built "shunt" to get around this within their 10A socket. Can anyone confirm?

With my red lead in the 10A socket and black lead in the COM socket I see the following (no units on screen):

10A setting: 0.5
200m setting: 5.5
20m setting: 0.55

Without fully understanding this, I'm thinking I've got a 0.5A or 500mA draw on my battery?

Apart from external fuses 1,2 & 3 that were too stubborn to come out after removing their screws and two big "12V" rated items at the top of the external fuse box that don't have numbers, I worked through all of the fuses. My partner took the measurements as I pulled each fuse in turn and the only one that made any change was #17 in the external box, for the interior light, which took the reading from 0.55 to 0.52 on the 20m multimeter setting.

When I took the internal fuse box readings I had the car door open and the values all stabilised at 1.25 instead of 0.55 (again on the 20m setting). If I pushed the door-close button with my hand the value would immediately drop to 0.55.

Aside from things like leaving the automatic lights and wipers on, most explanations I see suggest a faulty MICU or HFT/Bluetooth module are to blame. I know that early Civics of this car's generation were recalled for MICU / fusebox issues, but my car is recall-free from online checks.

Can anyone confirm if my understanding of the multimeter readings is correct and that the current draw looks too high? (50mA generally an acceptable top limit?).

Can anyone tell me which fuse the HFT/Bluetooth circuit uses?

Any thoughts or ideas on where to look next?
just to rule one thing out,,, did the AA do a running voltage check on battery,,, ie put meter across battery and check the voltage with engine running, 2000 revs should be reading 14.2 volts to 14.7 volts with no load.. then put everything on and see what voltage you have anything below 14 volts will be a charging issue,,, so say car is not fully charging the battery whats stored will be less and less every time you use car,,, 500 mileamps discharge could be the alarm currant and immobilizer, need to find out whats the standing currant discharge as standard,,, 500ma on a 700 amp battery fully charged would take a fair while to get flat,,,
what you can do is put meter on then measure discharge leave it on while you pull fuses in and out,,, also relay's maybe relay has gone south staying on so supplying currant to a circuit it should not be... but deffo check your on load charging circuit,,, alternator might be the trouble... hmmmm ho yes just remembered i've had diode go in alternators before and draws a currant flattens battery,,, disconnect alternator by pulling plug out if discharge stops then thats the problem
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The AA did do a voltage check on the battery with the engine running having jump started the car. I can't recall if they performed any checks before hand or not. I cant ever remember seeing a voltage as high as 14V any time the battery has been looked at. Its usually been between 12-13V.

When the AA tested the current battery I think if I remember right that it was only at around 11.8V-12.2V after the jump but that it did charge quickly. The AA battery condition tester found the battery to be ok and after watching the charge for 10-15 minutes the mechanic was happy with it.
 

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The AA did do a voltage check on the battery with the engine running having jump started the car. I can't recall if they performed any checks before hand or not. I cant ever remember seeing a voltage as high as 14V any time the battery has been looked at. Its usually been between 12-13V.

When the AA tested the current battery I think if I remember right that it was only at around 11.8V-12.2V after the jump but that it did charge quickly. The AA battery condition tester found the battery to be ok and after watching the charge for 10-15 minutes the mechanic was happy with it.
running that voltage needs to be 14.2 volt minimum anything lower than this fault charge circuit.. AA just use a strip that tells him with a red light if battery is dead,, trouble is he would of checked charge circuit on a dead battery and thats always going to be not accurate... 14volts plus is a normal circuit bud,, 12 to 13 volts no good alternator is fried

added piece of advise is,,, if you jump start a totally bugger battery switch head lights on,,, this should stop the risk of power spike frying your ecu...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Is the AA testing the same thing?

Are you saying that I should see a high, continual voltage in excess of 14V as the alternator charges the battery? Indepent of the state of the battery?

I am sure that the AA was getting a reading of between 12-12.5V that was steadily increasing... almost as though they could somehow measure the no-load voltage whilst the battery is being charged?
 

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Is the AA testing the same thing?

Are you saying that I should see a high, continual voltage in excess of 14V as the alternator charges the battery? Indepent of the state of the battery?

I am sure that the AA was getting a reading of between 12-12.5V that was steadily increasing... almost as though they could somehow measure the no-load voltage whilst the battery is being charged?
it was increasing but they never showed a charged battery alternator output,,, so charge battery fully put back on car start car, put your meter on dc volts 20 volt range. put red on red black on black,,, 2000 revs that car should hold 14-14.7 volts.. anything under this is faulty...
these cars use massive amps to run everything so alternators get a right kicking as do battery's
if battery is faulty it can and will restrict voltage showing...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok, update...

Last week I drove my car for...
2 x 8-10 minute journeys on Monday evening
2 x 12-15 minute journeys on Tuesday evening
2 x 8-10 minute journeys on Wednesday evening
2 x 12-15 minute journeys on Saturday morning

On Sunday I knew I had a 45 minute drive ahead of me, so used the opportunity to check the alternator. Started the engine on my drive, rev'd the engine to a stable 2000+ rpm and I got between 14.3-14.4 volts across the battery.

I did the test again at the other end of the journey for good measure and received a similar but slightly lower reading. I took the reading very quickly and had radio and aircon on, plus a door open etc., but it was at least between 14.1-14.2 volts.

So.. alternator seems fine. Any advice on where to look next?

Which fuse circuit is the bluetooth / HFT on?
 

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Ok, update...

Last week I drove my car for...
2 x 8-10 minute journeys on Monday evening
2 x 12-15 minute journeys on Tuesday evening
2 x 8-10 minute journeys on Wednesday evening
2 x 12-15 minute journeys on Saturday morning

On Sunday I knew I had a 45 minute drive ahead of me, so used the opportunity to check the alternator. Started the engine on my drive, rev'd the engine to a stable 2000+ rpm and I got between 14.3-14.4 volts across the battery.

I did the test again at the other end of the journey for good measure and received a similar but slightly lower reading. I took the reading very quickly and had radio and aircon on, plus a door open etc., but it was at least between 14.1-14.2 volts.

So.. alternator seems fine. Any advice on where to look next?

Which fuse circuit is the bluetooth / HFT on?
so its charging correctly. at night time start car switch off all lights in side car.. and look at the battery charge light while you rev the car,,, if the light light illuminates sort of glows when you rev car then that would show a diode in alternator would be faulty,,, this will allow a drain via alternator over night.. disconnect one side of battery and put your test meter in line to show amps discharge,, if shows this then disconnect alternator if discharge stops then thats your fault,, i've change hundreds of alternators with this fault,, the diode breaks down and allows a back voltage to alternator...
if not that then leave meter on battery and start pulling one fuse at a time, when no discharge then you know what circuit its on,,, say light circuit,, then leave fuse in and locate relay pull that one if discharge stops then your getting closer,,, to check a relay you will need to work out connections,, 2x are neg and positive for coil to work switch, the other 2 will be the switch straight through if that makes sense....
 

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Ok, update...

Last week I drove my car for...
2 x 8-10 minute journeys on Monday evening
2 x 12-15 minute journeys on Tuesday evening
2 x 8-10 minute journeys on Wednesday evening
2 x 12-15 minute journeys on Saturday morning

On Sunday I knew I had a 45 minute drive ahead of me, so used the opportunity to check the alternator. Started the engine on my drive, rev'd the engine to a stable 2000+ rpm and I got between 14.3-14.4 volts across the battery.

I did the test again at the other end of the journey for good measure and received a similar but slightly lower reading. I took the reading very quickly and had radio and aircon on, plus a door open etc., but it was at least between 14.1-14.2 volts.

So.. alternator seems fine. Any advice on where to look next?

Which fuse circuit is the bluetooth / HFT on?
or if its a case of not using car enough try these......4 Watt 12v Volt Solar Panel Trickle Car Battery Charger Boat | eBay
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Battery Drain "Fixed" - But now a Cruise Control Problem

I looked into getting a trickle charger a while back but the research I did led me to believe that all of the 12V sockets in the car are ignition live.

Update:

Took the car in for a service & MOT in mid April, explained the draw problem, which the technician monitored throughout and was able to verify. No other problems identified.

The dealership contacted Honda UK about the issue as they found that a service bulletin had been issued for the type of problem I have been seeing. They offerred to bring the car back in for further checks and I picked it up today. It turned out that the car had already had a fuseboard change under warranty before I bought it and that the levels of draw I am seeing are higher than the levels associated with the dodgy fuseboards.

The technician had to resort to pulling out devices one-by-one until he found that the bluetooth hands-free-telephone module is to blame. Given the choice of a £750+VAT+Labour replacement, it's been left disconnected! Hopefully that's now the end of the problem though.

Unfortunately I now seem to have another problem...

I noticed that after the original service (5 year, if this has any relevance), that the cruise control on the car was not working properly. The "Cruise Main" could be turned on and off fine, but the set/reset/cancel controls didn't do anything. However, I checked that all of the interior fuses were pushed in fully (after realising the problem driving to a wedding) and on the return drive it then began to work again. Could just be coincidental.

After picking the car up today, the cruise control is not working again, same symptoms. I've made sure that all of the internal and external fuses are pushed in, gone for another drive and the problem is not resolved.

I'd ideally like to avoid taking this back to the dealership if I can, as the service rep is very combative and they hit me with unexpected labour costs on the recent work, even after inviting me to leave the car with them, for potential warranty work. When I dropped the car off I explained to the service rep present that I wasn't expecting any costs associated with the checks/testing and he said nothing otherwise. Unimpressed with their lack of transparancy.

Is the cruise control in any way linked to the disconnected HFT?

Are there any changes/adjustments made at a 5 year service that effects the clutch/pedals etc. cruise control circuits/sensors in the pedals?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ok, just bothered to read through the many many other cruise control snagging threads on this site and have understood/solved the issue.

My pedals are extending/depressing properly when not under any load, the cruise control sensor at the top of the pedal is fully shut like it should be in this same condition. However, when I press the pedal by hand I can see that the small shaft in the sensor is well lubricated and I can see a ring of excess fluid on the lower seal. I've noticed that the main spring for the pedal further back is well covered with a thick dark grease with excess in places.

After going for a drive an intentionally playing, it just seems the setup has become very sensitive after the service. If I rest my foot on the clutch at all the cruise control is unable to kick in (which I have a tendency to do when not on motorways). Seems I'll just need to remember to take my foot entirely off in future, perhaps until the system sets in again.
 

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Regarding this issue, my 2006 EX was totally flat today after being idle for a week. Checked the current draw with my meter and there was a 0.51 Amp draw at all times. Obviously this will flatten the battery quite quickly. Unplugged my bluetooth control unit whilst my good lady held the meter leads on and the current draw immediately fell to 0.02 Amps which is what you would expect. Plugged it in again and straight back up to 0.51 approx, so I have left it unplugged. Makes sense to me now as my bluetooth was erratic for a while and has not worked at all for a few weeks now. Seems this unit has been the cause of a good few similar issues, hope this helps someone! Cheers.
 
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