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AC Compressor Overhaul - Shim Replacement

57K views 74 replies 39 participants last post by  Hemingway1975 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Thanks to Bob H, Wee Nemo and deaddog I’ve been able to put together this How To.

After having already replaced my compressor relay, checking all the fuses and the condenser fan and resetting the ECU (remove negative battery terminal for 10 minutes) my next port of call was the compressor clutch plate.

Before you start check those first, Climate Control on Wiki is here:

2006+ Honda Civic Forum

Related threads on this issue:

AC/Heater - Air Conditioning

AC/Heater - Climate control problem - Compressor not...

If you’re getting heat related symptoms of intermittent AC operation (at motorway speed OK but then in traffic and/or on hot sunny days it stops and starts working) then this could be the fix you need without the expensive diagnostics and labour charges.

The AC compressor is driven by an electromagnetic clutch on the lowest pulley on the left hand side as you look into the engine bay facing the windscreen. It’s quite hard to see and best to use a torch. The clutch plate will spin when engaged (working on faulty units when cold) and will be still when disengaged.

If it cycles off without being switched off then you can look under the bonnet to see if the clutch plate is spinning, if it isn’t and you have the AC switched on then this could be the problem.

I’m no engineer and would rate myself as an expert novice, so if you’re confident at taking things apart and putting them back together then this is easily achievable. No gas release or anything like that is required.

First off you need to get under the car, I used ramps, and axle stands are fine but as always never work under your car with only the jack holding it up. Once it’s up on the ramps you need to remove the undertray.
See Pic 1
Vehicle Tire Wheel Car Vehicle registration plate



For this you’ll need a 10mm socket to get the 4 no bolts that are around the circular hole you can see in the photo. The rest is held by clips a few under the bumper, 2 in each arch and a few more at the back on each side, careful not to lose any clips here and be gentle with the bolts as I snapped one in the thread trying to remove it too quickly.
See Pics 2 and 3 (the extra timber around the car and ramps was my 6 year old ‘helping’ and this isn’t absolutely necessary but the Civinfo sticker under the bonnet is proven to bring you good luck)

Car Land vehicle Vehicle Plant Vehicle registration plate





Now this is complete you will have a good view of the clutch plate due to the light around it. Before you go any further remove the negative terminal from the battery.

Now it’s worth saying now that if you want really east access to the compressor then you could remove the washer bottle but that’s quite a bit of work so I struggled on without doing so, however if you want to this then follow this thread may be useful to you:

Windscreen - Windscreen Washers Blocked Up

Once you are underneath the car the compressor pulley and clutch plate will look like this. The gap between the clutch plate and the pulley should be within 0.35mm and 0.65mm, you will need some feeler gauges to check the gap here, mine was >1mm:
See pic s 4 and 5

Automotive tire Automotive exterior Bumper Gas Automotive wheel system

Wheel Tire Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive exterior



That’s the OSR corner you can see on the right, the white bit is the washer bottle, the spanner is hanging off the retaining nut and the bar is what I have used to stop the clutch plate from moving as I use the 14mm ring spanner to loosen the nut holding the clutch plate in place.

There isn’t enough room with the washer bottle in place to get a socket in there or a proper AC clutch tool hence my improvised method. Here’s a picture of what the outward face of the plate you need to keep still looks like as well as showing how I modified a steel tube to hold it in place:
See pic 6

Revolver Telephone Finger Thumb Telephony



This is how the rod looked from the exterior, simple really the rod holds part of the plate and is wedged between it and the ground allowing you to loosen the retaining bolt. Deaddog used a different method but this worked for me:
See pic 7

Tire Automotive tire Tread Wheel Automotive exterior


Once I had the plate off I removed the existing shim which seemed rather thick. Now some people have just replaced the plate and measured the gap and found it to be within tolerance however I wouldn’t start this job off without having spare shims of smaller thickness in hand. Below is the inside of the clutch plate and the offending shim (I know that’s a lot of work to change a washer):
See pic 8

Automotive tire Bicycle part Rim Gas Automotive wheel system


Compressor with clutch plate removed (pic 9)

Automotive tire Hood Motor vehicle Light Tread


Honda sell a shim kit for this part and it costs £3.99 or something but when I called there was a 7 week wait as there were none in the UK or Europe. The Honda shim is a 10mmx14mm (that’s 10mm internal diameter x 14mm external diameter).

As I couldn’t get a hold of the Honda shim kit I resorted to eBay and bought a set of shims of various thickness that were 10mmX12mm, I’m not recommending this to anyone as I’m not sure if they will stand the test of time (3months so far and all OK), they are made for RC cars, but this is what I used:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shim-Set-...0pc-ea-Tamiya-etc-/271237540150#ht_1319wt_997
See pic 10

Sleeve Font Grass Wood Soil


Now you just complete the process in reverse. Using the smaller shims as necessary, put the plate back on the compressor and measure the gap between the pulley and plate with feeler gauges, once you are between 0.35mm and 0.65mm then you have almost completed the task.

You will need to use the rod or other improvised method to tighten the retaining nut (this should be torque set but I don’t fancy you getting a torque wrench in there). Here’s a close up of what I used, I made 2 vertical cuts with a hack saw down the tube, then cut down into the tube from each side until I met he bottom of each vertical cut, finally I used the open end of my spanner to roll the sides out into a slight V shape so that the circular parts of the clutch plate would locate in the tube without slipping:
See pic 11

Hand Human body Asphalt Road surface Gesture



Now you’re all assembled you need to re-connect the battery terminal and start the engine (make sure you’ve not left any tools anywhere in there though). You can then check that the clutch engages and disengages as it should do when switched on and off. If it won’t disengage then it’s likely the gap between plate and pulley is too small and you will need to repeat the process and either replace the shim or add another to increase the gap.

Here is a link I found to US based Honda Jazz forum, the compressor overhaul instructions are as above:

A/C Compressor Clutch Overhaul (With A/C)
Once you have the gap within tolerance and the clutch engaging and disengaging then you just need to put it all back together and hope it has worked. It’s not certain that this will fix it but well worth a couple of hours of your life as others have proven that this can be all that is needed to fix your AC.


Honda part number for the shim thanks to @Bald-biker 38912-PE1-702

 
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#37 ·
Ah thanks for that will have to give it another go at the weekend, with a large crowbar ??
And on the fn2 you don't need to remove the washer bottle just the wheel arch and you can get to everything you need (depending on the size of your hands and arms). Made up a little tool to hold the clutch plate still as well.
 
#38 ·
I did this earlier in the week and so far it's been a success - cool air all the way during a 4 hour drive. The hardest part was taking the clutch plate off - the nut is slightly recessed and ideally needed an offset spanner to get at. My Halfords pro one wouldn't fit, but I found an aldi one in my toolbox that did the job! I used a piece of wood wedged between the plate and the floor to stop the plate from turning.

One thing I did notice is that after having the aircon on cold for a couple of hours, it seems like something is icing up and blocking airflow - you can tell when you put the fan on high and it sounds as though it's blowing inside the dash somewhere but no air comes from the vents. If I then switch the aircon off manually, air comes out again. I leave it like that for five minutes or so and switch aircon back on, then it works as normal. Either way I'm getting cold air, so I can live with it.
 
#39 ·
I just want to report success with changing the shim and thank the OP and others.

I had no difficulty in accessing the nut on a Type S (FN) on the clutch, but I did have the car raised with the wheel, axle, wishbones off for replacement anyway.
The ring spanner went on easily out of my Halfords socket set, although it was difficult to turn due to corrosion. A bit of Plusgas helped. I did also manage to get a socket set in there, although it was a very tight fit. It didn't really offer me anything over the spanner though. I could have moved the water bottle out of the way easily enough if I'd needed to.

My clutch plate was corroded as you'd expect, so I took a hard wire brush to it, and then a much smaller, softer brass brush. You can get sets of 3/4 of these brushes for £3-4 from Ebay or Amazon. The plate came up much cleaner.

I then used the brass one on the compressor where the clutch plate would make contact, gently. It'll already be pretty dirty, but this will take off any corrosion on there. Finally, I wiped it all down with alcoholic wipes. You'll need a few, but it's worth it. The plate and the compressor will make much better contact.

I didn't use the same shims as the op suggested as I found sourcing them to be a bit of a pain. I did manage to find Interior: 10mm, Exterior: 16mm quite easily on Ebay though. The 16mm OD works well - in fact, I'd say better. I swapped the original and the 10id/16od a few times, and the slightly thicker one had less 'wobble' on it. The OD didn't seem to impact anything on the compressor, and the clutch engages instantly when it should.

If I was to do it again, I would go with the 16mm OD for sure. I used 0.1 thickness * 2, which meant the measuring gauge was within spec.

Cheers
 
#40 ·
Hi all. I followed this guide no problem - the hardest part was getting the undertray off! I used a piece of dowel to wedge the clutch plate whilst undoing the 14mm bolt. It was easy to do with a bog standard spanner, and had no problems with access against the washer fluid bottle. I actually found the gap between the compressor clutch was so large I didn't put any shim in at all.

But now I still don't seem to be getting cold air. Compressor is definitely spinning so it's not the relay. It was regassed recently so I'm guessing I've got a leak. Next step is to test the pressure I think?
 
#41 ·
Tried to follow this but it's way over my head! Pic help on the pdf though so thanks for that. Gonna take it down to a place near me to get it fixed!
Will check for the clutch though myself - so with the AC on it should spin the clutch mech - but if it doesn't it points to that being goosed?
 
#43 ·
Excellent guide, thanks for pulling together. I've had a look at mine and the clutch seems to be knackered.

Question, I managed to loose of the nut holding the clutch plate on without having to hold the plate and the clutch plate not spinning at all, does this mean that the condenser might be seized/knackered as well? Also tightened back up and no movement.

Weighing up my options and c.£125 for de-gas, clutch and re-gas is a bit of a punt and would be soul destroying if I had to get a recon condenser anyway.

Another question, I've got a Type R so didn't manage to get the clutch completely off as the distance between the pully and chassis is really tight, so looking like I'll have to take the condenser completely off either way, is there enough clearance with the sub frame to wriggle the condenser out or will I have to look at removing the beam and engine mount directly below it?
 
#44 ·
Question, I managed to loose of the nut holding the clutch plate on without having to hold the plate and the clutch plate not spinning at all, does this mean that the condenser might be seized/knackered as well? Also tightened back up and no movement.

Weighing up my options and c.£125 for de-gas, clutch and re-gas is a bit of a punt and would be soul destroying if I had to get a recon condenser anyway.
The clutch should be free to spin by hand when its disengaged (AC is off).
If the clutch is not engaging / disengaging when the AC is switched on/off then that needs to be fixed before getting a regas.
I'd probably get a garage to replace the whole compressor and regas. Its *possible* that its just the clutch that's knackered but the garage I spoke just wanted to swap the the whole compressor, I guess less fault finding is required that way.
 
#46 ·
Thanks wilson10 I thought that should be the case, I think best thing to do then is replace the compressor, Eurocarparts have a decent sale on at the moment so can get a reconditioned Lucas one for £350 (after £70 surcharge).

OOCH - Yeah I saw that post, didn't have another set of hands and couldn't manage prying it on my own. I'm going to get a de-gas and then change the compressor myself, hoping to not take the beam off but doesn't look all that if I need to, four bolts and then a bolt to an engine mount. I've got the car booked in at TDI North for some work next week so might be a few weeks before I get round to it, will let you know how it goes when I do get to it.
 
#51 ·
Yeah, the coil is definitely held in by a snap ring. I saw a video of someone trying to get one off that was rusted. They had to hammer round it to loosen up the rust before it would budge. Pretty sure mine just needs the shim removing or replacing with a thinner one. My air con worked for about 20 minutes after I put it all back together. The rust I scraped off must have given it a bit of life.
 
#52 ·
I just wanted to add to this thread and let you all know that I followed the guide and it seems to have fixed my air con. :)

I asked a few garages to do the work in the guide for me (as I didn't have wheel ramps to get under the car). They all refused and just wanted to sell me a new compressor for £400+.

So for £40 I got some wheel ramps and did it myself (following the guide). I used a metal rod to hold the clutch plate in place just like the guide creator. I replaced the shim that was already on there with a 0.3mm thick 10x16mm shim I got off of eBay.

Just done a 50 mile round trip and the air con was coming on every time I wanted it to.

Thanks again to the creators of that guide. You saved me hundreds. :D
 
#53 ·
Hi All, great guide ??
Currently under the car doing this at the moment, have managed to get the nut off to slide the clutch cover but there isn’t enough room to get it off the spindle (fn2 Type R) any tips on how to prise the engine accross to gain some room. Doesn’t look like many safe options?

Thanks
 
#54 ·
Just to update this to help anyone else.
I couldn’t manage to move the engine over by myself to get the clutch cover off, so I used a magnet to pull the current shim away from the housing so it was in the middle of the shaft looking from under the car. I then used some narrow wire snips to cut the shim then safely manoeuvre it off the shaft i also cleaned the rust off the inside of the clutch cover before resembling. And hey presto the aircon has now worked fine everyday since and doesn’t cut out once car gets up to temperature !

I had bought thinner shims to refit but coming across the above problem just went ahead with shim removal only. The current one was quite thick that I removed compared to the 0.1&0.2mm shims I purchased

Hope it helps someone, and thanks op for the guide Cheers
 
#55 · (Edited)
Just wanted to say thanks for this thread and guide :)

My air con had the typical failure case, stopping working after about 10 mins on a hot day - perfect!
Someone had already 'been here' because the air con relay had already been changed to the updated part.
My 'clutch gap' was over 1mm so I was fairly confident this was the issue. Makes me wonder if they all left the factory out of spec?

My usual garage also just wanted to fit a new compressor, but then didn't even phone back with a price for that!

So I bought some ramps and managed to do it fairly easily in about an hour or so (1.8 petrol).
I braced the clutch plate with a length of 15mm copper pipe as per the guide.
I struggled a bit to undo the nut, but managed it with some persistence.

This was a good few weeks ago and the AC had been perfect ever since :cool:
 
#59 ·
Just to let you all know. I changed my compressor clutch bearing and the electro magnet without removing the compressor from the car. And this guide is only from my memory of when I did it myself a few weeks ago so take it with a pinch of salt. I may have missed a few details out but will try my best to help you.

And only follow this guide when you have checked everything else and are certain that the electro magnetic clutch is at fault. Or if you have a noisey bearing.

I couldn't find a complete compressor clutch kit for a type r so used a various parts from another model.

Jump on ebay and get a compressor clutch kit for a 1.8 petrol. The pully wont fit but the electro magnet,locking nut and circlips will and it's only £12.95.

Then get a bearing. Delphi Sanden TRSE07 35x48x20mm. This is for your pully that you are going to remove from your car.

Then onto cox and order a shim kit. About 6 quid if I remember correctly.

Now you have all your parts you can start stripping your car. Get it up on axle stands and not ramps, you need to remove the drivers side wheel and undertray if fitted.
Open the bonnet and remove the little 10mm bolt that holds down your air con pipe, the big silver one coming out of the compressor and past the idler pully, top l/h side of engine as your facing it. This is to give you a bit of wiggle room once the compressor has been unbolted.

Under the car remove the 14mm nylock holding on the clutch plate. I couldn't quite get It off without using a bar to move the engine over to the passenger side ever so slightly. 3mm or so not a lot.

Then with a magnet or small flat screwdriver remove the shim/washer.

Then unbolt the x4 12mm bolts that hold the compressor to the block and pull it down ever so slightly. I used a ratchet spanner for the bolt at the top L/h side as I couldn't get a socket in there. All the rest you will get with a shallow socket.
Now you should be move the full unit up, down, left and right. Were not talking a lot as you dont want to put to much pressure on the aluminium pipework and risk damaging it.

Next you want to remove the pully. Its held on with a circlip. I tired with numerous circlip pliers and non were suitable so a trip to halfords got me one by laser. I cut 20mm off the length of the handles which give me enough room to access the circlip. Once you have the circlip off you unfortunately need to bolt the Compressor back to the block with x2 bolts. This is so you can pry and hit the pully without having the compressor move and damage the pipework.

I used x2 a pry bars at 9 and 3 o clock to rock the pully side to side. It only moved about 1mm but after 20 mins I had worked it loose without damaging the pully. Unbolt the compressor again to fully remove the pully otherwise it will hit the body work.

Then remove the wiring to the electro magnet along with the circlip and slide it off.

That's the easy part done [emoji849]

Put your new electro magnet and circlip onto your compressor and connect up the wiring.

Then put your pully on to blocks of wood not covering the hole where the bearing is coming out of and using a socket hammer out your old bearing thats in the pully. There are some little tabs holding it securely so its quite difficult to remove but a good couple of hits with a 4lb lump hammer works a treat.

Once out clean up the face of the pully with some Emery cloth lube up the bearing and press in your new bearing.
If you damaged the pully removing or its rusty from not being used now would be a good time so hit it with some sand paper to get a nice clean flat surface.

Pit your new pully back onto your compressor and fit the circlip (use the new ones that came in the kit for the 1.8 petrol).

You can now bolt the compressor clutch back upto the block.

Fit a new shim and clutch plate. Measure the gap with a feeler guage I went for 0.55 which I think is to the higher end of the tolerance. Remove shims/add more to get the gap right. (Theres a guide on how to do this bit)

Sorry that it was so long of a read. Hopefully be useful to some people.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
 
#63 ·
Thank you for this, it was helpful in understanding that it's possible to carry this out without having to do a regas. My A/C wasn't engaging and after checking all the other bits and pieces, I measured the electro magnet with a multimeter which gave 0 Ohms reading. The replacement good one's reading was about 4 ohms.

I did this yesterday but I took a slightly alternative route:

I took off the front bumper (which is actually only held on with a single screw on both sides under the arch trim. The purpose of this was to get the washer fluid tank (which has a bolt securing it at ehf ront behind the bumper) out of the way to gain full access to the A/C compressor from the side - You'd need to have removed the undertrayand part of the wheel liner too. Be careful not to let the bumper drop as the lights and washer tube are connected.

It's not too hard to slip the belt off but you might have to unbolt the metal piece that holds one of the cables for the alternator depedning on what kind of spanner you use for the tensioner - I'd highly recommend a straight 19mm ring spanner if possible with an extension (coincidentally a 3/4" drive socket breaker bar will fit nicely into a 19mm open spanner which you can use as leverage). You don't need to take the belt off completely, just off the alternator is enough.

Once you have access to the washer fluid tank, it's held on with 3 10mm boltsand has a couple of connections to it which can be slipped off. There's also a tube that feeds the bonnet washer jets which is quite long and can be unclipped.

Once you move the washer tank out, you should have full acess to the A/C compressor (clutch end) and it makes this quite a lot easier.

To get the clutch plate off you can use a variety of methods but mine wasn't on too tight and an impact driver holding the clutch plate was enough. Remember to save the shim which is tiny and easy to miss.

The circlip ring is very difficult to get off and it helped to have the right tool for the job. The previous day I ordered a Knipex 46 11 A2 circlip pliers which although was nearly £20 I don't think it's possible to do it without this so don't even think about this without it! I bought mine from Amazon: KNIPEX Circlip Pliers (180 mm) 46 11 A2 SB (Product on self-service card/in a blister) : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools This one fits the holes perfectly for the circlips.

My pulley was actually really easy to get off - I could pull it off with a little effort using just my hands on both sides. So no damage there and the bearing was good without any wierd sounds.

The 2nd circlip is just as hard as the first as it's so deeply inset. However, hopefully the first one would've given you a bit of practice!

Once you have freed the circlip the elctromagnet on mine was stuck on with a little bit of corrosion but a small tap sorted that out. There is a small screw which holds the ground connection (green) but it's most likely that this is going to be completely stuck and since teh compressor is still bolted on, it's hard to access. It's much each to cut and splice the connection instead which I did. The red conneciton is just a bullet connection which is easy enough to connect/disconnect.

The electro magnet has a small dimple to orientate it to the A/C compressor and the circlip goes back on (still quite tricky). The pulley is next which is slightly easier and I pushed it back on using my hands up until about 3/4 of the way where I used a small block of wood spanning evenly to knock it home. Add the circlip and then the shim(s). I cleaned up my pulley a little and the clutch plate a little while they were off. I used a feeler guage with a .50mm gap which dragged a little but was even all the way round.

The belt is ridiculously hard to put back on if you don't have a straight ring spanner to do it. I had a fear of it slipping off and me losing a finger or two. Luckily I had some help from someone to hold the tensioner in place and I could slip it back over the alternator pulley.

After that I tested it was working by starting up - as it took me another hour or two to put all the gubbins back together again. You will most likely need to get a lot of black plastic round clips as they break so easily.

In the end it wasn't as hard as I'd feared - I bought a gear puller as well for the pulley in case it was really stiff but it wasn't needed in the end and I'd highly recommend getting the washer tank out of the way as it made it so much easier.
 
#60 ·
I bought a second hand compressor because my A/C was not engaging, After I topped it up with Gas at a garage the AC complressor would not engage with the replacement unit. I took my old unit apart and worked out how it functioned.

I removed the clutch plate from the replacement last night cleaned up the faces with a wire brush, then raplaced with 0.35mm shim with a 0.008mm shim and now the AC compressor engages. I have seen a lot of people posting about their compressors not working after a regas recently. This will most likely be the problem.
 
#61 ·
Will be interested to see if mine is the clutch plate, assuming so. I've had to replace the air con rad / condenser due to being pierced, re-gassed and worked fine (even changed the relay for good measure).

Works great when car is cold, until warms up.. Then hot air just when you don't want it!

Have ordered the shims, will see, FN2 so sounds like it's going to be fun...
 
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