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This is disgusting behaviour on this dealers part and I hope Honda UK have been informed.

(apologies if HondaUK has already been mentioned above)
 

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Discussion Starter #62
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Honda UK have been involved for some time, but based on the information I've received from them, don't care.

They just copy and paste a response saying it's a franchise problem and that they're a separate company, if multiple complaints are received about them, they will be investigated and if more surface they will lose the franchise arrangement - however despite the evidence I've presented to show they're consistently failing multiple customers and actively trying to sweep things under the rug, their tune then changed to we can't discuss other peoples experiences...so Honda UK are about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

It reinforces my point to be honest - that it's down to the customer to hold the dealership accountable for their actions, and if they try and argue the toss or insinuate you're lying then you've got to make a case to the contrary with someone impartial, as no one's going to take your side by default. Even when I argued the law was on my side all parties involved argued if I rejected the cars I'd need to pay a large amount for 'fair usage' which is a negotiable term in law as it's not defined as a fixed value - however when I made that point that it's negotiable suddenly I was wrong, I didn't understand the legislation and it was a fixed cost (utter crap tbh).
 

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Discussion Starter #63
So I think I may have found something else out.

The Civic's been sold now, I watched the listing for a while and it did nowhere state it was ex-instruction use, which breaches the ASA ruling (link below) which could be interesting for the new owner, I am quite happy to sit down with them and explain the history etc on the vehicle along with why it was sold again after only 6 months!
(https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/102191/buyers-sold-ex-rental-or-company-cars-without-warning-to-get-compensation works as of 9th Jan 2019)

The bigger issue I've found is with the Accord. Was sold as an approved used honda, however I've found evidence now that the approved used warranty only applies to vehicles up to the age of 8 years old.
Accord was registered Sep 2009 which would make it already over 8 years old at the time of sale, for clarity I mean it wouldn't be 8 years old for the years warranty it had.

Now I checked with Honda UK (who are begrudgingly speaking to me in short messages after I have to keep sending them reminders for requests...) and they said that the warranty on the Accord according to their system was registered as a listed plan, which only covers specific parts of the car listed in the warranty, which I believe means the car never had it's 12 months approved used car warranty, it was immediately put onto a restricted warranty due to the age of the vehicle at the point of sale.

So I was sold an approved used car that was never an approved used car to begin with? How exactly does that work?

At no point were we made aware that yes there's a 12 month warranty but you're not getting the one everyone else does etc. That would have directly affected my decision on buying the car, I would have had a Civic which was a cheaper car anyway and gone slightly newer to get the full approved used warranty for peace of mind.

I'm by no means the only person they're attempting to screw over, and when there's a resolution to other peoples cases I'll ask them to add a thread with a similar title on here to showcase their experiences also, because I'm dealing with one chap who's had an experience worse than mine - YEAH....:surprise:

PS. The review I put up about them on google, which they had the chance to rectify, and were told quite a few times in writing that if they sorted things out amicably I would amend the review to note that, the dealership has been actively having my pictures removed from the review. Initially I thought it was a glitch as when I upload images google tends to duplicate them like 5 times for some reason, but I contacted google business support who confirmed the owner is flagging every image I put up stating its breaching policy and their automated system is taking it down, I'm working with them now to get an exception put against these as they aren't spam images, there's one of the Accord on their site with the AA van next to it, one of the instrument cluster showing the DPF failure and another showing the front end of the Civic.

On the plus side the Accords still on the road, passed it's MOT after I had to send it back, I liked how it had an advisory on a suspension component despite the dealership saying they replaced most of the suspension bushes etc. before I had it...
 

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Doesn't this just show how dishonest and 'shady' some dealers can be.

I'm surprised HondaUK aren't taking this up. I know years ago they would arrive at a dealership unannounced and do a spot inspection to ensure standards are being maintained. Dealer standards in this case obviously don't matter.

By all means post the pictures here and link to them, we won't shift them and if we get any request to do so we'll post accordingly.
 

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When I was looking for my 10G Civic I got a really good quote from Holdcroft via car wow, needless to say I ran a mile, part in thanks to this thread so their loss. How the hell can they treat people this way and Honda UK turn a blind eye, after all it says HONDA on a big sign in big letters and thats what the average person remembers, they then walk away from Honda all together because of poor dealer service. So with that in mind I am shocked Honda UK dont take complaints more seriously, after all they dont sell cars in the same volume as VW or Ford so I would have thought reputation and market share would be important, clearly not. Shame on you HONDA UK.
 

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I have my car serviced at Crown Honda Bushey because Honda Ruislip have let me down 3 times in the past.

When I last looked at Google reviews I'm not alone, Ruislip had 1 star (because you can't give zero stars) and Crown had 4.5 stars out of 5.
 

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Discussion Starter #67
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Doesn't this just show how dishonest and 'shady' some dealers can be.

I'm surprised HondaUK aren't taking this up. I know years ago they would arrive at a dealership unannounced and do a spot inspection to ensure standards are being maintained. Dealer standards in this case obviously don't matter.

By all means post the pictures here and link to them, we won't shift them and if we get any request to do so we'll post accordingly.

Completely agree, it's like they try to preach honesty, but when something goes wrong don't just say ok we dropped the ball, here you go it's now sorted, it's a constant battle of we never said or did anything wrong with them, or with the likes of Darren Holdcroft (the owner) he refuses to meet with me, obviously the word of the customer isn't important, he stuck by the staff straight away without considering my account of events.

Honda UK just give me the same story of we'll look at it if more people complain. I actually hear more from other complainants regarding honda uk than i do HUK themselves, from other people I hear Honda UK are sending letters and all sorts to Holdcroft, but I'm dubious on whether this is actually them getting involved or not, as they called the dealership for me too, but when I went to site I was met with a statement by the Holdcroft Honda head of business - who said yeah I know Sam from Honda UK, we get on really well, which is like the weirdest thing you could have possibly said and is clearly to try and provoke something...


When I was looking for my 10G Civic I got a really good quote from Holdcroft via car wow, needless to say I ran a mile, part in thanks to this thread so their loss. How the hell can they treat people this way and Honda UK turn a blind eye, after all it says HONDA on a big sign in big letters and thats what the average person remembers, they then walk away from Honda all together because of poor dealer service. So with that in mind I am shocked Honda UK dont take complaints more seriously, after all they dont sell cars in the same volume as VW or Ford so I would have thought reputation and market share would be important, clearly not. Shame on you HONDA UK.
Oh Honda UK still don't like me asking questions which is odd, I've had to fight to get out of them the details of the approved used scheme, they still say because it's not a manufacturing issue they can't get involved, and give me the same statement that if more complaints are made they will investigate and impose special measures etc. I've been completely shafted over this and the chap I'm trying to help at the minute has been left without a car as his is arguably too dangerous to be on the road.

I'm glad I could help in some way :grin2:

I have my car serviced at Crown Honda Bushey because Honda Ruislip have let me down 3 times in the past.

When I last looked at Google reviews I'm not alone, Ruislip had 1 star (because you can't give zero stars) and Crown had 4.5 stars out of 5.
Oh it's a fickle system, I put that review up about Holdcroft Honda Cobridge and almost overnight reviews started pouring in that were all 5 stars, almost as if there was suddenly a drive to drop my negative review from view - so I took steps to ensure it remained at the top, and also added photo's to it, then the photos were being deleted, and I had to contact google to find out that they were flagging photos as being in breach of policy and googles automated service took them down, I queried with Darren Holdcroft why this was happening and suddenly it stopped...

I've found the best way to check reviews on someone now is a website called cardealerreviews, they refuse to take down negative reviews if they're genuine opinions.

The ban is en-force though with me and Holdcroft, I tried asking Holdcroft Nissan a question about our new Micra (had it from Bristol st), they refused to reply, i asked someone else to copy and paste the same question, bam instant response, I asked why they refused to communicate, bam blocked from their facebook account.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
I did want to add a small update to this, earlier in the thread I may have said I was banned from a forum called Honda Karma after posting my review on there, the admin there Ichiban sent me a message, and after the ban I couldn't access it.

But the owner of H-Tune Leo has now taken over the site and it looks like he's potentially been given the boot for running things into the ground so he's aware of the ongoing situation and has reactivated my account so I can now share the response Ichiban sent when I posted this review about Holdcroft (i tweaked the spelling and grammar errors):

"Hi Aaron,
I have had to remove the post you have made on the forum as I have received telephone calls stating legal action will be taken against US for slandering the relevant parties. I don't need this hassle on my door step and I urge you to take this matter to a mediator or an ombudsman"

Shortly after this message, when I queried what I could do to moderate the post, I was insta-banned. Created a new account, Insta-banned again.

So this message has now been sent off to the ombudsman as part of my ongoing fight to make Holdcroft rightly accountable for what happened, they aren't squirming out of this one, and neither will they with anyone else after this...
 

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We don't ban people for telling it as it is.

If we ever did get any communication requesting a ban (which wouldn't happen on a third party request) or post deletion, we would ask for documented evidence that the poster was wrong.

If it did happen then it would be from the forum HQ and questions would be asked.


Just like that recent news item about Green Motion car rental charging people for non existant damage.
Boss said it doesn't happen, even though a fair number of people said it does, with bank statements to prove it - then an ex employee whistleblower said it does.
So - who to believe, the company or customers.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
Just been banned from Holdcroft Motor Group's facebook page for commenting on their Honda awards evening photo, all I said was hoping this years customer service was better than what they gave me in 2018...😕

They REALLY can't take criticism peeps! :serious:

#Cowards #Growup #BeResponsibleForYourActions
#Holdcroft
 

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Discussion Starter #72
Well, I wasn't set out to drive business away from Holdcroft, more just make people more aware of what they could be getting into should they have a problem - it appears the chap in here who in part avoided Holdcroft based on my experience isn't the only one!

Here's the quote from Facebook

"I've just had a read through your post on the forum via the link higher up this thread and from that I can say categorically that Holdcroft Honda Cobridge have failed totally in dealing with your complaint at every step. My next move would be issuing legal proceedings against them, all costs will be awarded against them as they are clearly in the wrong. This will cost them dearly and their reputation will be in shreds as a result. Not much consolation to you but I have relatives living nearby that very dealership who are considering purchase of a brand new Civic, I have warned them off doing the deal through Holdcroft Honda Cobridge having seen your experience. I would not wish your experience on anyone especially not my family so I thank you for the heads up on this Azzaa."

Holdcroft maintain their silence.

Now that my ban was overturned on Honda Karma (now H-Tune), it appears the old admin was kicked out and replaced with Leo from H-Tune. He's a top lad tbh, I know there's some stick given on social media about long reply times or delivery times, which I did mention to him in conversation, and it's something he's aware of but there had been a number of factors causing that - which are moving to being resolved, so anyone who's a H-Tune fan or after parts in the future hopefully things show a speedier turn around :grin2: he was up front and genuine about the issues faced and he's worked around the clock to manage everything, for everyone.

But anyway, now I'm back on that forum also, I've had chance to re post my review - and touch wood there's been no legal threats to H-Tune as of yet.

The lads there did ask if i could put up some advice for future buyers, which I've begun to do - and i thought it only fair I post it here too!

My advice to potential buyers would be as follows:

1. Seek out the negative reviews, I can't stress this enough, look at the responses by the business and what the customers had to say, heck reach out to them if you can, social media reviews will allow you to do that - ask if they got it sorted, if they brought from them again, the perceptions of those who've been badly treated will speak volumes more than those who have had positive experiences, and I say that because if you're treated badly, you potentially don't buy from them again and usually your family and friends shy away also, it has a large impact on a lot of people.

2. when specifying your new car, check over the offer letter before signing, and if the wording is not correct or it does not state EXACTLY what YOU want as the customer, ask for it to be changed, don't do as I did and accept "N"s response that there's only so much room on the offer letter, heck hand write it if you need to and request a copy so it can't be 'lost'.

3. when specifying a used car, organise an independent check over of the vehicle, it's powerful evidence - should you need to dispute things with a finance company or the dealership or ombudsman, they will want to see proof the car was faulty at the point of purchase, now within the consumer rights law anything within the first 6 months is deemed to be there at the point of sale, however getting a finance company to respect the law as I found out is challenging as they outright refused to accept that just because it was in the consumer law that they had to agree with it, they wanted proof.

4. on your new / used car, if anything has not been fixed or prepared in the way YOU want it, as YOU defined it in the offer letter, DO NOT ACCEPT THE HAND OVER OF THE VEHICLE, as if you are part-ex'ing your vehicle and you accept a car via handover that still has issues you're not happy with., you can't go back to your old car if it's been taken in part ex! believe me, I've tried to find the damn thing, it's in the wind!

5. You have a very limited time to set up a service plan if you buy a new car, and its limited to the accounting period for the sale of that car, we were told we could bring the money in for that and "N" would let us know when we needed to be here for, we brought the money in and were told sorry your too late (he hadn't let us know anything), and there was no apology or anything for it - luckily "C" in the service team was more than happy to sort us out with a Holdcroft one (unfortunately another reason I couldn't move to another dealership, as they weren't Honda service plans, they were Holdcroft specific ones).

6. Don't accept anything on face value, "N" never once said we couldn't have things when we asked for them, hence asking for EX heated seats and He-Man Dual controls, it was a relaxed atmosphere of yeah we can do that, no worries, Hakunamatata! LOL only when the proverbial hit the fan, did his response change to one of, I never agreed that, it wasn't possible - note this was again after hand over.

7. Be wary of anyone pushing positive reviews, negative reviews serve as a reminder the business isn't squeaky clean, but it shows how they've managed to potentially resolve issues with customers and shows they have good customer service, if you're concerned about reviews like mine and you're told to just ignore them and look at 536 other positive ones, does that say to you that we're good at resolving issues if something goes wrong? Or does that say well just hope things don't go south because we're not the best at dealing with the fallout?

8. APPROVED USED CARS - any car 8 years old or over IS NOT APPROVED USED, check the main honda website for the official T&C's on it, but at 8 years old if anyone says you have an APPROVED USED WARRANTY like they did with me, they are lying! At 8 years old the warranty changes to something called a listed plan warranty, which only covers specific items, if you have a fault not defined by that plan then tough luck, you're out of pocket and paying for it yourself (unless it's within the first 6 months and you raise a complaint stating in consumer rights law 2015 anything within the first 6 months is assumed there at the point of sale).

I'm sure there's more advice to add, when it enters my head I'll upload it LOL

"N" was the sales exec, "C" Is the service manager.
 

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^ yep that advice says it all very succinctly.

Just to add an anecdote to that. One of my sons spent a good several years working in retail (before escaping into PoS installation). He worked in Sainsburys, Tesco, Currys, and Maplin, where the mantra was customer service i.e. the customer is always right. Along the way, he decided he'd like to be a car salesman (at any franchised dealer) and applied for several vacancies. He only ever got telephone interviews and got no further. I suspect that the interviewers realised that, due to his retail training, he just wasn't cut out to be a devious two-faced liar.

They are all untrustworthy, always have been, always will be. Just like estate agents.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
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I did also offer up the advice "never trust a car salesman"...
Zebster? I'm going off your picture lol Thanks mate :)

^ yep that advice says it all very succinctly.

Just to add an anecdote to that. One of my sons spent a good several years working in retail (before escaping into PoS installation). He worked in Sainsburys, Tesco, Currys, and Maplin, where the mantra was customer service i.e. the customer is always right. Along the way, he decided he'd like to be a car salesman (at any franchised dealer) and applied for several vacancies. He only ever got telephone interviews and got no further. I suspect that the interviewers realised that, due to his retail training, he just wasn't cut out to be a devious two-faced liar.

They are all untrustworthy, always have been, always will be. Just like estate agents.
Yeah I saw Holdcroft Nissan in freeport shopping centre (Talke) and spoke to a sales manager there, was there for a good half an hour or more and he was floored by my experience, said he'd just come off a course from Holdcroft where the entire day was a message on how the customer is always right, rightly or wrongly, they are always right, as one negative customer has the potential to snowball reptuation wise!

How is it they're being taught that, yet with the Honda side it's a case of, we never did anything wrong - take us to court but you'll lose, oh btw you're banned, good riddance?
 

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spoke to a sales manager ....... said he'd just come off a course ..... where the entire day was a message on how the customer is always right, rightly or wrongly, they are always right

The best advice of all, is to get a hidden microphone, record what is said, go home, and analyse it.

e.g. "an entire day" is the clue to the invented anecdote.

Everyone tells lies, some tell so many lies that it becomes habitual and they no longer know when they are lying. The higher up the greasy pole, the more that this inbuilt mechanism becomes 2nd nature.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
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The best advice of all, is to get a hidden microphone, record what is said, go home, and analyse it.

e.g. "an entire day" is the clue to the invented anecdote.

Everyone tells lies, some tell so many lies that it becomes habitual and they no longer know when they are lying. The higher up the greasy pole, the more that this inbuilt mechanism becomes 2nd nature.
True! But it's not admissible :/ I did consider doing that for a while, but it seemed pointless as it wouldn't be legally usable without their knowledge and consent.

Yes, quite possibly the afore said sales manager was already pretty well clued up in the art of 'customer relation'.........
Quite possibly yeah! He'd come from an Audi dealership, not been with Holdcroft long, he just seemed so shocked that I'd shot down the first impressions of the company he thought he'd be staying with long term LOL
 

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True! But it's not admissible :/ I did consider doing that for a while, but it seemed pointless as it wouldn't be legally usable without their knowledge and consent.
No you don't use it as evidence, you use it to analyse what someone has said e.g. you go to buy a car, you record the conversation, then go home and listen to the subtleties, and if anything concerns you from re-listening, you call them up and say "as far as I remember, you said abc, I'm recording this conversation, do you agree that we agreed abcdef" . The point is that good sales people are adept at NLP , almost hypnotic, so you're at a disadvantage in the moment. This is how you can end up signing something that doesn't quite fit with what you were thinking, but note that the decades older you get, the less effective the sales blarney.


Quite possibly yeah! He'd come from an Audi dealership, not been with Holdcroft long, he just seemed so shocked that I'd shot down the first impressions of the company he thought he'd be staying with long term LOL
He wouldn't give a damn, he's just trying to look interested, and get rid of you without being rude.
 

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Discussion Starter #80
Well, I've managed to annoy another customer after they read my review

"https://h-tune.co.uk/club/threads/holdcroft-honda-cobridge-holdcroft-in-general-review-thepromiseisbroken.188174/live#post-2334841"

"Been in to honda this weekend to choose my reg for my new car... was so busy, the had some sort of event on, but still made time for me and looked after me. Honestly it was like the local pub at christmas, everyone seemed in good spirits, getting on laughing and joking and buying cars. They said they had done nearly 30 in 3 days..
I mentioned this forum thread and they are aware of it, I said why don't you reply. They responded very professionally, we know the customer who is writing it and we chose not to respond, the individual can tell his lengthy stories However all is not what it reads and there is two sides to every story. He also said We sell as a company over 700 cars per week and in the 53 years Holdcroft has been in business there is only one customer who they have chosen not to deal with, ill let you make your mind up who it is. They didn't get it to any discussion about it.

I can't fault them, I'm actually annoyed the this guy is going out of his way to try and deter people from using them.
Autistic eh....
One customer band in 53 years you must be something else."

Odd they didn't get into discussion about it, despite saying we've sold 30 cars in 3 days and 700 a week? And stating they've been in business for 53 years?

Is it just me or does that speak volumes in terms of saying exactly what I've been referring to?

WERE NOT REPLYINGGGGGG, 0:)

but hey look at our sales and review figures! :grin2:

Not that we're directing you away from his experience..uhm...honest..:wink3:
 
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