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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all,

since two week obviously there is a leak in the electric system. There are some periods when I do not drive the car at all (for maximum 5 days). After the first 5 days, my battery showed 8V. After recharging everything was ok. I measured the voltage in static, in mid revs ... all measurements were absolutely fine. After another 5 days (without driving the car) the battery was again charged with 9V.

When I measured the system for leakage, my multimeter reads from 0.19 up to 0.53 which is extremely high compared to the recommended 0.05. All measures were made on closed vehicle with alarm turned on and in period of 10-15 minutes in order the modules to have time to "go to sleep".

I started to take out the internal fuses one by one, but there was no significant decrease in the consumption, which was quite strange to me.
After that I started to take out the external fuses one by one.
Suddenly there was a fuse (under number 16) which when was out, the multimeter shown 0. When it was in, again the values were in the range 0.21-0.53. In the fuse diagram on this fuse were depicted a book with the letter i, but I understood that this is the fuse of all interior lights, as well as the navigation, radio and s.o. When it was out, only the dashboard and the speedometer worked.

I allays thought that these external fuses are somehow the main/general fuses and hoped that I will locate the problem via the internal fuses, but now ... I know that the issue is in the interior lights, navigation, radio and who knows what more, but how to locate the problem more precisely??

The car is honda Civic 8 EX, 1.8 i-Vtec, i-shift, 2006.
In the following pictures the problem fuse is marked with red circle.

http://195.149.248.189:8080/2015-06-20/e68381083e5bcc04df82ffc048f5d9fd_920x0.jpg
http://195.149.248.189:8080/2015-06-20/c481c1a8bd10ef12cba0ad96709fd0e9_920x0.jpg
http://195.149.248.189:8080/2015-06-20/093f4127c6b61d9dd08c57d5f2537367_920x0.jpg

I will appreciate every try for help.
Thank you in advance and sorry for my english if something is unclear or wrong typed. 10x
 

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You removed under hood fuse 16.

Which controls the following.

MICU, Immobilizer-keyless control unit, Gauge control module (tach), Gauge control module (speedo), Hands-Free Telephone control unit

The part that is bolded is what is causing your issue(known parasitic draw issue)

You can remove MICU fuse/underdash fuse 35

Which controls the following.
Accessory power socket, Audio unit, Interface dial, Cigarette lighter, Hands-Free Telephone control unit, Navigation display unit, Navigation unit

So nothing really important, this will give you the time to remove the Hands Free Kit from the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I already removed the underdash fuses one by one and did not catch any decrease in the consumption.

I have two suspicions and both are connected with what you wrote :

1. You mentioned Gauge control module. After installing a LPG system I had an issue with this tach. When i drove on LPG the computer continue to calculate petrol consumption and the petrol level on the dash shows countinuesely decrease. In order to reset the tach (after every ignition) I installed a Petrol float emulator. The installation was conducted as it was described in the manual. All is described in the following thread - http://www.civinfo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=199937

2. Hands-free Telephone control unit - if by this you mean the bluetooth module, which is attached on the cover (i don't know the exact word) under the steering wheel, I have serious suspicions that this module is out of order. First is that I cannot connect my phone, second my dial and reject buttons on the wheel works when they want. Also when I bought the car the previous owner gave me this module separately without to say that it doesn't work or something else. The bad thing here is that this module controls the voice commands as well, but if the problem is coused by it I can live without it until I find someone to repair it.

The thing that bothers me is that the both things are installed far before 2 weeks (when my battery dropped for first time ). The only explanation that I have is this bluetooth module to went out of order suddenly, but then why I didn't catch it when I made the test with the fuses under dashboard. ...

It's confusing to me.
 

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I had this on an Astra once and it turned out the Alternator was shorting out on occasion. Sometimes it didn't drain at all but other times the battery went flat over night.
 

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I already removed the underdash fuses one by one and did not catch any decrease in the consumption.

I have two suspicions and both are connected with what you wrote :

2. Hands-free Telephone control unit - if by this you mean the bluetooth module, which is attached on the cover (i don't know the exact word) under the steering wheel, I have serious suspicions that this module is out of order. First is that I cannot connect my phone, second my dial and reject buttons on the wheel works when they want. Also when I bought the car the previous owner gave me this module separately without to say that it doesn't work or something else. The bad thing here is that this module controls the voice commands as well, but if the problem is coused by it I can live without it until I find someone to repair it.

The thing that bothers me is that the both things are installed far before 2 weeks (when my battery dropped for first time ). The only explanation that I have is this bluetooth module to went out of order suddenly, but then why I didn't catch it when I made the test with the fuses under dashboard. ...

It's confusing to me.
Electronics are funny.

The issue is your Hands Free Kit.

It is a known issue.

With out seeing the module it is hard to even start to think about repairing it.

This is the wiring diagram on how it is connected in the car.

Seems the trouble path is the Back Up Wire.(WHT).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/omnulw8f3rkekph/HFT.png?dl=0

It is connected to Fuse 16.

Now Back up could be backup power could be for backup power in case the main power dies or backup memory.

If I can get a large clear photo of the HFT PCB and which connector is connected to backup(WHT wire) you could see what is the cause.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Confirmed - the issue is in the bluetooth module!

Removing fuse number 35 didn't help, but when I disconnected the bluetooth module the multimeter immediately dropped to 0.01 A, which is perfect.
Now the question is what to do. I don't think that we (in our country) have good specialists at this, but I will try to find someone with knowledge.

The price of this module, even second hand on ebay was too high.


 

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PCB is Printed Circuit Board.
Which is the green thing.
All those things connected are components which are all SMD/SMT(Surface Mounted Device/Surface Mounted Technology) except for the connector which is Through Hole Device.

Do you know which is Pin 11(white wire), Pin 1(Purple Wire) and Pin 13(Black).
Pin 11 is the Backup supply which is the root cause of these issues.

I will see if i can try to help you UK chaps with this pest PCB.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/omnulw8f3rkekph/HFT.png?dl=0
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
This is the connecter and the wiring





By the way, you can see how the PCB looks like, exactly around Pin 10.



Here are more detailed photos if it is necessary - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/md0ixi38flg7o1n/AAAzmpH6Bq1PRopI6TWzzkYpa?dl=0

By the way, I'm not sure is it connected or not, but I have some problems with the HFT system. Very briefly - my dial and reject buttons on the steering wheel work when they want (I mean not allays when I press them), and the other thing is that once when they worked I could not connect my phone to the system. It asked for the 4 digit code, accepted it, said "Searching for bluetooth devices" and that was. My phone (samsung S5) didn't shown any devices. I hope the problems to be connected.
 

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This is the connecter and the wiring





By the way, you can see how the PCB looks like, exactly around Pin 10.



Here are more detailed photos if it is necessary - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/md0ixi38flg7o1n/AAAzmpH6Bq1PRopI6TWzzkYpa?dl=0

By the way, I'm not sure is it connected or not, but I have some problems with the HFT system. Very briefly - my dial and reject buttons on the steering wheel work when they want (I mean not allays when I press them), and the other thing is that once when they worked I could not connect my phone to the system. It asked for the 4 digit code, accepted it, said "Searching for bluetooth devices" and that was. My phone (samsung S5) didn't shown any devices. I hope the problems to be connected.
The fact that you now have to repair says that pin 11 is back up memory.
Which will keep pairing info and contacts in the HFT board.

You number the pins wrong, but you were just going of the plug and not the way honda did it(which is wrong).

The large yellow wire is the problem thing, but it is also the thing that keeps memory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Is there any solution, which I, with my basic knowledge can do or I should find a specialist in micro electronics?
And just to clarify - the problem is in the module (something with the PCB) or in the wiring (the harness cable connector)?

About the numbering, I'm pretty sure that the rad cable (upper right) is marked as a Pin 1. I don't if the previous gay changed something, then it could be wrong.
 

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The issue is most likely on the PCB.

No one will fix this, they will say get a new one.

Found the FCC Approval page for this device.
https://fccid.net/number.php?fcc=CB2BLUEC05&id=549726

Sadly the circuit diagram is classified and with out it, it is nearly impossible for me to help without having the unit and playing around with it.

Hopefully someone here who is good with electronics can take a look at it.

Just need to see where the trace from pin 11 goes to.
Since this is a 4 layer board(top layer, 2 inside and bottom) it makes it a little harder, but you just need a multimeter set to continuity mode and see where the trace goes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Bad news, huh.
I can trace the signal, but it will take a lot of time for me. In the same time I'm not sure what will do afterwards. ..

One last question and I'm stopping to bother you with my issues. Do you think if I find and buy another module, will it work in sense with the changed pins?

Thank you for your time and help!
 

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the pins are in the correct location, honda just numbered them wrong.
The trace will lead to something.

What ever chips use Back up power is the cause of this devices failure for everyone.

If you buy another module it is just plug it in and away you go.
 

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There is a thread over on the Electronics pages where people have managed to fix these modules by putting both boards, on foil on a baking tray, in a non fan assisted oven at 180-200 degrees centigrade for 10 minutes to essentially reflow the solder on the board. Just make sure that after 10 minutes you turn the oven off and open the door and let everything cool naturally before moving it as you could disturb the solder joints.

It's a crude way of fixing it that obviously carries some risks, but if the unit is broken (and costs ~ £400 new or ~£180 second hand) then I figured I had nothing to lose. I have done this myself in the past week and it seems to have solved the problem, now the HFT works and shuts off correctly after 20 mins of ignition off and I measured 0.01A current draw.

The link to the thread is here
 

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You can use a heatgun(not a hair dryer) to reflow, it is more precise
A toaster oven can be made into a reflow oven with little work.

10 minutes is way to long
And since the solder is ROHS compliant it is 99% tin which needs a higher temp than SnPb(tin/lead) solder.
 

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Does anyone know when Honda started making hft modules that worked? Seems like hunting round a scrap yard is probably the easiest fix.
 
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