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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
[DISCLAIMER: If you follow this as a guide to change the rear disks and pads yourself, you do so at your own risk.
If in doubt, take your vehicle to a technician and have them fitted professionally.]

edit: [SAFETY FIRST DUE TO POPULAR REQUEST:
You will need axle stands, goggles, gloves, ear protectors, overalls, steel toe cap boots, hard hat, fresh air supply, well ventilated area, shin pads, elbow pads, insurance waiver, witness to the deceased and a proper blue peter manual.]

Hi all...hope this is helpful.

This is the EBC GD Grooved disks and EBC yellow stuff pads.
Code numbers are for 2.2 FN3..yours may differ.
The left disk and pad box is for the rear.
The right disk and pad box is for the front (another day).
Toast is extra.


The rear pads.
If you look at the left side of pad 2 from left to right,
You'll see metal burring or fixing compound that has been painted over.
Unfortunately some of the pads had the same on the shoulders
and these need to be moving in and out the pad carrier (caliper housing) freely.
So I filed all the shoulders on all the pads.
This is just enough to lose the paint and smooth the metal.
No more is required or desired. ;)

That metal prong you see sticking up protrudes just past the last of the pad.
It is here to squeal its butt off when your pads are finished.
A pad level warning indicator basically.
It should be at the bottom on the back pad when fitted.
But the pads and pad carrier seem symmetrical,
so you may be have a different orientation on your vehicle. [smilie=thatworks.g:

You can also see 3+2 metal yellow cylinders poking up from the pads back.
The central cylinder of the larger 3 sits in the calipers piston slot.
More on this later.....very important!
Upto 3 of 52 in the positions cards :laugh:
Make your own tea.
[IMG]http://www.civinfo.com/forum/attachments/wheels-tyres-suspension-and-brakes/34003d1268229658-fitting-my-rear-ebc-grooved-disks-and-yellow-stuff-pads-rdp-009.jpg[/IMG]

The rear disks.
Take careful note of the spiral Groove.
The idea is that when the disk spin hot air is forced outward.
The hot gas thus escapes the disk.
For that reason the disks have to be handed.
Make sure you put them on the right way,
or the hot air/dust will be scooped inward instead.

The picture does not really show how discoloured and tarnished the disks were.
New disks normaly come with an anti corrosion agent and the box had the warning.
This is usually like a vaseline coating for the disk while on the shelves.
This has to be removed with white spirit or similar.
Mine were bone dry.
They are zinc plated which means:
A) they dont need the agent and so dont have any.
B) they have a different kind of agent applied which dries.
I couldnt be sure...so I spent an hour on each scrubbing with white spirit.
Then 15 minutes soaking in mild green fairy liquid before a scrub and dry. :rolleyes:


The rear disks again after the thorough cleaning.
Still discoloured but nothing like they were.
Discolouring could simply be the zinc tarnishing in the air,
and grease from sweaty arab fingers. :)


The left rear disk hub assembly with the remains of copper grease from the wheels.
[Car is jacked up and wheel removed..spin the disk hub and listen to the pads for later comparison]. :popcorn2:

Disks are noticeably corroded and worn with the lip on either side of the pad track.
I think you are allowed 1mm wear per side or 2mm combined.
Check the wiki if in doubt.

Notice the very center wheel bearing cap has corrosion around the edges.
This disk had rusted to the hub at this point.
It took me 30 minutes of excessive violence to get this disk off. :(


The spanner and rachet releasing the upper caliper bolt.
Notice the rubber boot just to the left of the spanner.
This should rotate freely and be able to move in and out freely.
This mechanism allows the clamped pads and caliper to accurately follow the disk at all times.

As the pads wear the pad gap moves to the outside of the wheel.
The caliper must move to the inside of the wheel to compensate.
This helps to some degree with warped disks.


The caliper released from the main caliper housing or pad carrier.
Note the caliper is supported at the bottom by the pad carrier.
Do not let your caliper hang in mid air as it stresses the brake hose. ;)

Honda decided it would be good to glue in their pads.
Hooray for Honda.....unfortunate for the buggers that replace the pads.
The pads will be stuck to the caliper and piston. :mad:
You'll have to rip the plastic film off the pads with some violence.
Twist and pull the caliper works quite well.

You can now see the top and bottom thin metal pad guide shims in the pad carrier.
They have builtin spring clips that firmly clamp them to the caliper housing.
The pads shoulders easily slide along this guide channel. [smilie=nod.gif]
This channel needs to be lubricated with copper grease.
I have rotated out the outer pad so you can see how and where it slides in.


The caliper housing/ pad carrier being released behind the wheel hub.
Here I am undoing the lower of the two bolts that hold the caliper housing to the wheel Hub.
You can see the upper bolt above.
You can also see one of the bolt holes for the removed caliper upper left.
You'll need a torque wrench for these to get greater leverage.


The pad carrier/caliper housing with pads removed.
Notice the pad guide shims are caked with crap.
Somehow your pads are supposed to slide freely along that! :facepalm:


The disk held by two screws.
Make sure you use a tight fit phillips.
You definitely dont want to round these off with a loose fit. ;)
They may need some persusasion.
My rachet and phillips bit selection sufficed on this occasion.


Well used rubber mallet headbutting disk.
It took 30 minutes of serious agro to release the disk from the rust. :viking:
The Hubs central protrusion was the culprit.


The hub with the disk removed.
Here I am cleaning off the corrosion on the hub face and neck.
You need to ensure this face is flat and clean for the new disk.
If not, your disk will vibrate and you'll get all sorts of braking problems.


The ABS sensor.
The gear teeth on the wheel hub has a sensor just above.
Some cars use optical sensors.
Some casr use magnetic sensors.
This is the magnetic type.

The sensor was absolutely caked with iron filings standing on end.
The teeth were cakes and filled in with dirt/dust etc.
This does not aid the process of wheel speed sensing. :laugh:

Those teeth on the cog create changes in the sensors magnetic field.
These field changes are translated to electrical signals by the sensor.
I gave all this a thorough cleaning with a nylon brush.
This got the worst of it off.

Cleaning all this might help with VSA problems with the back brakes. [smilie=superkewl.g:
[IMG]http://www.civinfo.com/forum/attachments/wheels-tyres-suspension-and-brakes/34014d1268229781-fitting-my-rear-ebc-grooved-disks-and-yellow-stuff-pads-rdp-022.jpg[/IMG]

The brake caliper resting on my tyre.
Yes I know...very naughty..:damnmate:..but its the perfect tool to rest the caliper on.
Its also recommended to place the wheel under the car.
That way the wheel gets crushed and not your legs should the jack fail or similar.

Anyway, this stops the brake hose from being stressed.
Plastic ties are not possible while the handbrake cable is attached at the bottom.
Movement of the caliper is very limited.

My finger is lifting the remains of Hondas engineering ideas. :hahaha:
You need to get all the old pad remains off like the glue and plastic.
Get the caliper nice clean and smooth where it makes pad contact.
If you dont your pad will not sit square with the disk.


Laser wind back tool engaged in the caliper piston slots.
There are two protrusion that engage the caliper piston.
Turning the bar turns the calipers piston.
Turning the gnarled nut presses the caliper in.
You need pressure and clockwise turn to get the piston back.
Hand tight pressure is sufficient.

Some people will remove the master cylinder brake fluid reservoir cap and soak up fluid spill.
Here I have a one way bleed pipe and the bleed nipple open.
Fluid should be forced out the feed pipe when the piston is pushed back.
The caliper piston was filled with 99% air. :rolleyes:

Braking efficiency at 90%...non Honda front disks the dealer says 4 weeks ago.
Braking pressure required was erratic.
Was it really too difficult to bleed the brakes as a matter of course anyway ?:worms:

NB the nipple thread is not a very tight fit.
Some fluid leaks out of the thread when the nipple is open.
You can see where this has dribbled in the tyre tread.
Dont worry....wheels and tyres were thoroughly cleaned of brake fluid later. ;)


The pad carrier/caliper housing with the pad guide shims removed.


Putting copper ease on the inner face of the disk.
I dont want to be hammering daylight out of disks to get them off again.
Dont cake it on as you dont want to put your disks out of line and vibrating.
Just a very light smear to cover the metal and stop the corrosion bonding.


Putting copper ease on the neck of the wheel hub.
This is where the disk had corroded to the hub and wouldn't come off.


The caliper and pad greased up.
I just smeared very little grease at the lower edge of the pad to stop corrosion.
I was considerably more liberal at the pad top and side of the main shoulder that slides in the pad guide.
You need to apply grease to the caliper side opposite the piston as well (if greasing the piston).

The black you see on the back of the pad is actually rubber to prevent squeal.
So copper greasing this area (including caliper piston and side) is optional.
I'd rather not do all this twice if the rubber damper does not work very well.


Pads greased and mounted in the cleaned guides.
Just in the background you can see the radial grooves in the caliper piston.
It is rotated in an X orientation.
THIS IS WRONG.
If you do this the raised central cylinder of the pad will not seat in the caliper piston.


The caliper piston rotated to an + orientation.
THIS IS CORRECT.
The raised central cylinder of the pad will now seat in the pistons left groove.


A different view of the pads mounted in the pad carrier/caliper housing.
The top and bottom of the pad should be sliding back and forward in the guides with little effort.
The guide is a spring and lightly clamps the pad shoulders.

Some people have reported they have to hammer in the pads. :facepalm:
This is due to the excess material on the shoulders forcing the pad guides into the pad carrier.
Insufficiet gap for the pad to seat at all let alone slide.
The pads will not release and probably wont clamp either in this case.
you'll get an effect like a seized brake piston and your brakes will be useless.
You'll have to pull the pads out and file them like I did at the beginning if they are not damaged.


The left sided disk and pad carrier in place with caliper behind.
Pad guide channels were not greased.
The grease I put on the pad shoulders is what you see in the channels. ;)

Check the disk runout.
I put a sighting mark on the pad carrier inline with the disk and rotate the disk.
If the disk moves either side of the line you have a problem.
A mechanic will use one of these or similar...
Sealey Brake Disc Wear & Run-Out Check Set - Read reviews, compare prices and buy Sealey Tools and Accessories online at DealTime UK

If youre disk is wobbling....
A) take the disk off and check you have only lightly smeared the grease on the inner face, if at all.
B) make sure there are no rust spots or debris inside the disk or on the hub face.
c) see if you have wobble in your wheel hub...your wheel bearing may be knackered.


Bleeding through the caliper.
With everything put back securely bleed through the brake.
Check the disk does not bind after pumping and releasing the foot brake.
Check the disk locks when the handbrake is applied and releases when released.
Spin the disk...
you should either hear a continuous light rubbing (with zero runout),
or a louder and quieter rub (with a little runout).
[Thats why I said listen to your existing pads]
If you hear rub silence rub silence rub silence....double check the runout.


The left side finished with a thoroughly cleaned wheel.


The right side disk corrosion and wear.


The pad carrier with pads pulled out in one piece.
The inside pad had completely seized in the guide. :motz:
I had to take off the whole assembly as one unit and hammer out the pad with several serious blows.


The pad carrier with insitu pad.
The caliper piston left visible marks on the back of the pad.
This show how the pads central cylinder locates in a piston groove


Not very good photo of the ABS sensor covered with filings.


Back of a dirty and cleaned pad guide.


Front of a dirty and cleaned pad guide.


Cleaned pad guides clipped back into the pad carrier.
Make sure you push the pad guides fully home and that they mate properly with the pad guide/caliper housing
You can see the 4 semicircles that clamp the pad carrier under tension.


The right side finished and the wheel thoroughly cleaned.


The old pad and disks.
New pads have about 8mm of material to get through.
These have about 3-4mm left on them.



The right side wheel after 25 miles bedding in.
You can see the pad marks removing the zinc plating.
Note the spiral groove orientation.

150 miles gentle braking until bedded in.
No emergency stops for 200 miles.


The left side wheel after 25 miles bedding in.
Note the spiral groove orientation.


So ends my jorrney into the rear disks and pads of the Honda Civic FN3.
Car holds fine on the handbrake.
For general braking the rear brakes arent very effective at the moment.
But the brakes as a whole are no worse than standard.
Drove with the windows wide open for the 25 miles to check for noise.
Some people have reported rota noises or squeal but I hear nothing.
No noises to report.
 

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Comprehensive (even overly thorough) 'how-to' ! ...

However, may I suggest the method that I used ? ...

1} Buy disks and pads from EBCdirect
2} Take Civic and EBC parts to dealer
3} Tell dealer to get it done sharpish
4} Re-mortgage house (Norway prices)
5} Give dealer huge large bag of cash
6} Drive away, cursing furiously !!! :cool:
 
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Cockup Specialist
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Discussion Starter #4
Comprehensive (even overly thorough) 'how-to' ! ...

However, may I suggest the method that I used ? ...

1} Buy disks and pads from EBCdirect
2} Take Civic and EBC parts to dealer
3} Tell dealer to get it done sharpish
4} Re-mortgage house (Norway prices)
5} Give dealer huge large bag of cash
6} Drive away, cursing furiously !!! :cool:

Thanks Derek :smile:

Yes.... of course....that method can sometimes work as well. :worms:

:rofl:

But I cant be bothered keep going back to the dealer when something aint right...they swear they fix it ....and it still aint right. Then you have to pay lots of cabbages....and get really angry and throw plates....and it all gets stressful and unpleasant. ;)

Alternatively....Why suffer all that, when you can have the jack collapse and the car fall on your legs...cut yourself on the nearest available piece of metal...smack your fingersnails with the hammer...and generally get frustrated at the workmanship of the original fitter causing all manner of problems...and all at your own leisurely pace, until you have to pick the wife up. [smilie=thatworks.g:
 

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Jesus christ mate where the hell are your axle stands!!!!
LOL

Axle stands:facepalm: Only amateurs use axle stands real pros stick a nice shiny wheel underneath or even better leave it on a scissor jack.:worms:


Seriously though good write up but safety first I've had a car fall off a jack and its not pretty. luckily no-one injured but a nice big hole in my floor.
 

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I've always preferred wooden blocks - I have 2 slices of a " 12 x 12 " and 4 slices of a " 6 x 6 " permanently domiciled in my garage ...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Have you done the fronts as well?
No matey...not yet. :)

Need to file the pads and clean the disks for the front as well.
Probably tommorrow. ;)

If the fronts dont take as long as the rears to clean up...then I may fit them the same day. If not, I'll do the fit on Friday. :rolleyes:

Want to get the rear bedded in a bit more as well really, before I swap out the front and lose most of the brakes. :worms:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
:) seriously mate nice post no wonder it took so long! and for anyone who does knack the screws that hold them on just drill them out and dont replace them
Thank you :proud:

sorry about the lack of axle stands people...I'm a cheap, tight, git who likes living dangerously (and doesnt want to spend 1000's replacing all the tools nicked out the garage)....the rest of you should be extra careful ;)
 

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Nice pics, I wonder what the discs would look like on a Type S.

I bought the same discs as you, but got the green stuff. Still havent had time or been brave enough to fit them yet.

Where abouts in UK you live? And how much would you charge me to do it for me :) ?
 
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