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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well back in DEC 2011 we bought a CTR from Gilders Honda Rotherham and to be honest the car is now fine (after a lot of my hard work and money) but for a car 2 years old and only 9k on the clock we feel we should have not had the problems we had and to be fair this was mainly down to the dealer not cleaning and checking the car over correctly because if they had then they would have resolved these issues before I arrived to collect the car. I have not said anything before as to be honest no one likes to admit that they was not happy with their new car etc and how the sale went but after a few problems which was topped of last week when the DVLA contacted us (hand signed letter not print) to say they had received notification of our car being scrapped and wanting to confirm this and the fact after 8 days the dealer does not even reply to my email I am now on one to get these issues resolved.

Due to the dealer not replying to my email (I gave them 8 days) I have contacted Honda UK about the issues we encountered and then also emailed the managing director of the Gilder group who replied to me at 8pm on a Friday night to apologise and explain he was away until Tuesday but will deal with this when he returns to work.

Here is the email I sent to Gilders Honda

Hi Mark,

Further to our telephone call here is the list of my issues I found when buying a used Honda from Guilders and I feel this does not live up to the Honda Happiness as quoted below.

“Rigorous checking and preparation Our Honda ‘Multipoint’ check, carried out by Honda trained technicians, ensures that your new car meets our high quality standards. Our multi-point includes lighting equipment and instruments, steering and suspension, brakes, and even body work. Your car will also undergo a detailed engine check and a thorough road test for your safety and satisfaction. Finally, your car goes through an in-depth valet and polish so that it’s fully prepared when you come to drive it away.”


Here is a list of the issues I have found and experienced.

  • The wipers did not clear the window screen (you rectified when I returned with 2 x new wiper blades).
  • The NSF wheel arch was insecure due to broken clips (I bought 2 x clips from local dealer).
  • Bonnet sound proofing was insecure and dropped down when bonnet was lifted (I bought 3 x clips from local dealer).
  • Gear gaiter was badly worn and light scuffing on gear knob (local dealer carried out Honda warranty claim / repair).
  • I asked for the tracking to be done but found the steering wheel not to be centred and had to return to have this sorted (more below).
  • The car in my opinion never even saw a full bucket of water never mind a in-depth valet and polish so that it’s fully prepared when you come to drive it away. (Mark is well aware how poor this was)
  • When cleaning the car when I got home I dropped down the rear seats and found the rear quarter panel to be smashed, I had to return the next day to have this swapped (took around 3 hours of my time and £20 of fuel never got a so sorry about this never mind compensated). Believe it or not when you had done this I went home and removed the rear seats as there was grass under them that was in the car when we got it from you and it was still there you did not even bother to clean this up.
  • I asked about a boot carpet that Honda sell for a Civic to go in the boot like a mat, was told they don’t do one for a Civic yet I managed to buy this from my local Honda dealer and it fits great (you lost a sale here).
  • Suspension creaked on the rear, common problem that Honda would pay for under warranty but did this myself due to fast easy fix and less hassle.
  • I also found the 12v cigarette lighter socket did not work which turned out to be a blown fuse.
  • new front tyres fitted and balanced but still has 1 x original wheel weight still on the wheel (you always should remove old weights before balancing new tyres).
Back onto the tracking now, when I returned for this and the wipers the mechanic would not put this back on the ramps and told me we will go down the road and adjust the track rod ends a little at a time until the steering wheel is straight and the car drives true. I tried to argue this was not the way to do it and was told by the mechanic this is what Honda recommends (I doubt this very much but if unhappy with the outcome I will be asking Honda UK) so I let your mechanic do this and left. As I knew the tracking was not true and these tyres are expensive I booked the car in at ABP motorsport for full tracking and camber correction at a cost of £160 + 140mile round trip.

This is how the car arrived at ABP

Front caster left 4.13 (inside Honda tolerance)
Front caster right 4.19 (inside Honda tolerance)
Front camber left 0.05 (inside Honda tolerance)
Front camber right 0.47 (outside Honda tolerance)
Front toe left 0.1mm (inside Honda tolerance)
Front toe right 0.8mm (outside Honda tolerance)

Rear camber left -1.37 (outside Honda tolerance)
Rear caster right -0.41 (inside Honda tolerance)
Rear toe left 0.7mm (inside Honda tolerance)
Rear toe right 1.6mm (outside Honda tolerance)

Now the car is all true due to what I have spent but giving you had tracked the car then the front toe right should not have been outside Honda tolerance and even though you can not do the cambers etc I know you gauges do show this and quoting what Honda say “Our multi-point includes steering and suspension, why was I sold a car that was outside Honda spec and to be fair was a warranty claim what Honda UK would pay to correct? I feel the car was just shall we say another car another day at work and he has already bought it so why should I care when checking and valeting this? I do know for sure if the service had be done to a better standard and the cleaning then I really should not have found these issues but what is very clear here is the preparation of this car was not to the standards that Honda UK set as a minimum. I know Mark is fully aware of how clean or so we say not the car was as under the rear spoiler there was mud (never seen a sponge never mind the in-depth valet and polish Honda say I should get) and there was even mud on the accelerator pedal which just like checking the wipers wash and clear the window screen you would have thought a vacuum and wipe in the drivers side of the car was the least to expect when spending £12000. Now to top it all off today I have received a letter from the DVLA asking me to confirm if I still own the car as they have received a notification of disposal for our car. I am far from happy with how we received our used Honda and to be honest I have been left out of pocket by around £220 to in fuel and labour cost to correct things that I should not have had to never mind around 1 day of my time to do the the in-depth valet and polish Honda say I should get when buying a used car and around a day of my time stood around waiting while people correct these problems.

I would also like to point out that I asked Mark before the car was ready that when you go over the car to be very keen as anything that needs doing we both now will be done under warranty / paid for by Honda UK so it was in your best interests to find and repair these faults as well as giving me a better car and did say if that delayed us picking the car up it would be ok.

Would I recommend Gilders Honda? Well no as any mechanic that tries to tell you the you don’t need the gauges to track a car says it all never mind the quality of the car wash and just a quick question about this is did the car get washed at the BP drive though as I guess thinking about it this would explain a lot. I look forward to your quick response in this matter, and please note this LINK to the Honda website that tells me what to expect when buying an approved used Honda.

Rick


As you can see from a few of the pictures the car has now cleaned up well but it should have been checked over and clean when collected.



 

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Sounds like a lot of hard work! I bought mine from there when it was Peter brooks Honda, I imagine it's the same staff. I had a few run ins with them, sometimes very helpful and other times turned their back on me. I was recently informed by a private garage I know and trust that my car looked like it hadn't been serviced in a long time.

I wouldn't recommend the garage to anyone! The only time they were helpful was when they were able to diagnose problems using Hondas bulletins like clutches, suspension and flywheels even corroded alloys! They seemed to be fitters not mechanics. But this is all my opinion and I'm sure some people will praise them!
 

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Don't forget to let them have a link to here as I'm sure this thread is going to last for a while.
 

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Look like you have a chunk out of that alloy in the pic Rick. I'd have expected it to be sold refurbished for 12K or at least with a smart repair.

Sounds like a lot of hard work! I bought mine from there when it was Peter brooks Honda, I imagine it's the same staff. I had a few run ins with them, sometimes very helpful and other times turned their back on me.
I took my car to Peter Brooks for everything until their Sheffield Woodseats branch's body shop manager allegedly told the garage I bought it from that the damage to my paint work (roof rack damage caused by defective paintwork) was "acceptable" in his opinion.

This was the feedback I got from the body shop manager at the garage I bought it from which is why I say allegedly as I didn't hear this 1st hand but have no reason to doubt it.

Now how can damage to a private vehicle be acceptable? If he was accessing it for sale on his forecourt then maybe, but as a privately owned vehicle its either damaged or not and if damaged you have a right to have it put right.

Anyway, this caused a big problem as the garage I bought it from then turned round and disclaimed liability having previously said they would consider putting it right. Peter Brooks were less than helpful in themselves with the warranty claim which was rejected by Honda and again on appeal. They simply took a photo and submitted a claim (I have to wonder if the alleged acceptable comments, if true, were added as well).

I also found myself going in and being made to feel like a fraud when I complained about problems I was having and thought needed investigating under warranty. Everything was played down and I was told several times about how it cost them money to investigate warranty issues as they didn't get paid if nothing was found. It got to the point where I was walking and and feeling as if the staff were going "not him again" (perceived not said), and I actually felt embarrassed to go down there.

In the end, as soon as I found out about what had allegedly been said, I took my car to Gordon Lambs Honda at Chesterfield who've been nothing short of brilliant.

On the paint issue they took digital measurements all over the car and charted the depths on every panel, they took photos, they gathered all the service evidence as they told me a warranty claim couldn't be considered without it (no mention of that or collection of paperwork from Peter Brooks), and were totally meticulous in their work and got the warranty claim accepted 1st time.

They've also got some more recent warranty work accepted without quibble. They check everything no quibble and professionally and without making you feel like you shouldn't be asking for investigation. Additionally, they recently fixed some rattles that Honda wouldn't cover under warranty as a gesture of good will ie FOC.

Just can't rate Gordon Lambs highly enough. Suggest you go there now Rick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Don't forget to let them have a link to here as I'm sure this thread is going to last for a while.

We will see but to be fair its not great and most of the problems were caused with the lack of inspection and cleaning of the car as you would have noticed and rectified the problems before I arrived to collect the car, the USB lead was also missing in the car but did forget to mention this and was resolved when collecting as I noticed this straight away. I also noticed the lack of cleaning but just thought I would do this myself as really could not be bothered to wait for them to do this but when I found all the other faults this just highlighted how much of a poor job had been done.

What has made me name and shame them was their ignorance (lack of a reply) to my complaint and email then add to the fact the letter from the DVLA and the tracking job that was to be fair could not believe what the mechanic was trying to convince me was the correct way to do this then I thought it was time not to let this go and to push for an acceptable resolution to this problem.
 

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Good on you.... I'd be majorly freaked out about receiving that notice from the DVLA re: the car being scrapped.. I'm already fearful for you, for why this could be the case???? Doees it specify? Do you have any more info????

How this can get through a dealers grasp? or how they could sell it with such a title in question concerning the car is, frankly, bloody well worrying.
 

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Only used Peter Brook's, Mushroom Garage (pre Gilders) for servicing. Cannot praise them enough. Car was always ready at time specified by me. Always got a loan car, if not a Jazz it would be service managers car - even had an Insight which was quite interesting.
When I collected car it was always spotless including thorough clean of alloys with all brake dust removed.
Only negative comment from me about them was the free sweets you used to get from them after the service, changed from a lovely tin of boiled sweets to sickly jelly beans......YUK.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Rick have you HPI'ed the car to check its only a paperwork mistake?
The dealer did this but as we have finance on the car I know this will be fine

Good on you.... I'd be majorly freaked out about receiving that notice from the DVLA re: the car being scrapped.. I'm already fearful for you, for why this could be the case???? Doees it specify? Do you have any more info????

How this can get through a dealers grasp? or how they could sell it with such a title in question concerning the car is, frankly, bloody well worrying.
Yes very worrying but to be fair DVLA suspect this is an error hence the letter to us to check if this is correct.

Only used Peter Brook's, Mushroom Garage (pre Gilders) for servicing. Cannot praise them enough. Car was always ready at time specified by me. Always got a loan car, if not a Jazz it would be service managers car - even had an Insight which was quite interesting.
When I collected car it was always spotless including thorough clean of alloys with all brake dust removed.
Only negative comment from me about them was the free sweets you used to get from them after the service, changed from a lovely tin of boiled sweets to sickly jelly beans......YUK.
Same garage and somehow I don't agree but then again I stated I bought the car blind (over the phone) ad before it was cleaned for the forecourt hence I suspect they gave it a quick BP car wash (BP at the same site) and thought it would be ok, what is really surprising and worrying if paying for work there is the mechanics attitude towards the tracking:worms:
 

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If i was you rick, I would have walked in to the sales showroom and shouted thus:

"can i have your attention please all would be customers",

"Do not buy a car from here as i have had nothing but trouble with mine and they refuse to resolve my issues."

then direct your attention to the manager:

"I will be coming here everyday and warning EVERYONE i see not to deal with you with signs and placards until you fix all these issues"

see if they get their act together when they are losing out on customers
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If i was you rick, I would have walked in to the sales showroom and shouted thus:

"can i have your attention please all would be customers",

"Do not buy a car from here as i have had nothing but trouble with mine and they refuse to resolve my issues."

then direct your attention to the manager:

"I will be coming here everyday and warning EVERYONE i see not to deal with you with signs and placards until you fix all these issues"

see if they get their act together when they are losing out on customers

I have fixed all the issues at my expense and time but have not bothered with the dealership manager I have instead contacted Honda UK (sent them the email as well) and have also emailed the Gilder Group Managing Director. I thought in the end it was better to go straight to the top as it is clear the garage either think I will go away or don't give a ****.
 

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i bought my car from there also , strangely i have some same problems as you .

when i picked up mine , i was told to come at 1130 not 0900 as they said they wanted to give it a good valet which takes 3 hours . so i tohught wow very attentive but when i arrived to collect it there was still lots of dust on seats/dash where car has been standing and i could still see the sticky residue of the £9995 mark on windscreen still .lol

mirrors folding half way , was told that car was low battery having stood on forecourt for a long time but the passenger folded gracefully in front of sales man - later replaced under warranty.

found green crayons/colouring book in glovebox which had stained the carpet, obviously i aint got kids or own crayons

my boot light was not working , found out they obviously unclipped it and it fell down the back when they have the tailgate open for car show rooms to prevent it from draining the battery.

found my rear panel where boot light is housed shattered obviously someone tried to retrieve the boot light by pulling the rear panels cracking it

creaking clutch - replace master cylinder under warranty but its still doing it.

drivers rain wiper rubber hanging off - mot failure - replaced under warranty.

passengers wiper mot advisory - rubber hanging off the wiper although i had bought the car in july 2010 so no rain back then and MOT was in sept 2011 - replaced at my own expense.

intermittent knocking noise ,

ciggarette lighter working intermittently when going over bumps , dealer said that its a designated cigg lighter only and not for accessories for tomtom - replaced in warranty , now works perfect . obviously old lighter springs were worn from previous smoker from constant use.

1/2 gear doesnt engage when setting off from traffic lights , must take out of gear and then its ok thereafter

noticed some items msising - replaced under warranty

i have been happy with their service cant really grumble when compared against other garages - still a few things to sort out before my warranty expires
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I think a good solution would be for them to pick up the bill for abp motorsport as to be fair they agreed to track the car as a condition of the sale yet this was not even done to Honda tolerance and their mechanic did refuse to re-track this using the gauges so what do they expect? Never mind all the other issues we have had including the on going one with the Dvla but I will be honest and say i doubt this will happen but you never know.
 

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Unfortunately I read this thread at 9:00am whilst I was in this particular dealers waiting area, whilst my GP front and read splitter got fitted. After reading I was massively worried, but in complete fairness the service I received was great.

However sounds like you had a shocking experience which is never good.

Hope you don't mind but I showed them your thread on my i-phone so hopefully it will force them to resolve all your problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Feel your pain I am in discussions with my supplying dealer ..................well would be if they called back.
what is more annoying is a little time and effort to prepare, clean and inspect the car properly and all the issues we had i suspect would not have been there which would have made this a nice smooth transaction, i will say mark was very good with the paperwork and going though everything so its a shame the other part of the team let him down when preparing the car.
 

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Like I said Rick - Gordon Lambs.

The service there is 2nd to none and even their hot chocolate in the waiting area has real pieces of galaxy chocolate in it. I knew there was a reason I kept going back!

Seriously though, with my warranty problems with HUK, I've had the service manager Hugh phoning me in person. Everything has been looked at, nothing has been too much trouble, courtesy cars have been arranged. Car was washed and valeted after going in for repair (I even suspect polished given the shine and the fact it was beading water!) Really 1st class service.
 

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I would prob asked for a full refund or the finance cancelled and handed the keys back. I would then have marched my ass to another dealer explained the service I had received. Knowing this the next dealer should really be jumping through hoops to impress you.
 

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Unfortunately I read this thread at 9:00am whilst I was in this particular dealers waiting area, whilst my GP front and read splitter got fitted. After reading I was massively worried, but in complete fairness the service I received was great.

However sounds like you had a shocking experience which is never good.

Hope you don't mind but I showed them your thread on my i-phone so hopefully it will force them to resolve all your problems.
[smilie=ebil-thumbu: ... and I hope they were thoroughly ashamed of themselves !
 
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