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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

While in for a service my (independant) mechanic identified a leaky injector seal on our 2006 2.2 EX.

A quick search backed this up with other symptoms we'd noticed but not thought to link together being a slight diesely whiff in the cabin when climate control not set to recirc mode and a slight drop in MPG.

So, I've done some reading on here and elsewhere and i need to get this sorted obviously but i'm having trouble finding anyone/anywhere that can do the work for me! My mechanic advised that while he's normally willing to have a go at most things, the injector removal process can be a really pain and sometimes requires sepcific tooling to avoid damage being done to the injector and/or other components so I would be best served finding a specialist to remove the injectors.

My local Honda dealer want to charge me £40 for a diagnosis session before they'll even confirm what the problem is (despite me telling them) or even give me a price to complete the work (the numpty on the phone didnt even realise you could replace the seals on their own).

I've found several companies that specialise in injector removal but none anywhere near local to me, the one that has quoted me so far is so far away it would cost £300 just in travel expenses!

Does anyone on or near the South coast (near Brighton) know of anyone/where that could do this work for me??

Any advice greatfully received! Thanks in advance.
Jim.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Hi Jenga,

I fear it could be more than just gasses, my mechanic said he could see bubbling. Unfortunately it could have been a problem longer than I'd have liked, The Wife said there was a diesely whiff for a while before the service but she 'fixed' it be enabling recirc on the climate, being new to diesel she didn't think anything of it.


Is it likely to have carboned up to the point of being 'difficult' if fluid has been escaping?

Also, I don't suppose anyone knows what kind of tools one would need to have to hand to have a go at this with?

Thanks,
Jim.


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Hey sorry for the late reply, yeah there is only 2 ways an injector can leak, it can leak fuel from the fuel delivery pipe/ fuel return pipe / body of the injector (unlikely), or the copper washer at the bottom of the nozzle can deteriorate and allow gasses to escape during the combustion cycle. If it's bubbling while running I would say it was the latter.
Take the engine cover off and have a look, depending on how long it's been leaking if it's blow by you will see a heavy carbon deposit (black gunk) around the leaking injector.
 

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Your mechanic is right to be cautious... it can be a pig of a job, as diesel injectors can often become tightly stuck in (despite the seal suffering blow-by). However many DIY owners do manage to remove them at home, sometimes easily with regular tools (if lucky), sometimes using a hire tool (if not so lucky) or maybe having to call on the services of a mobile specialist (as a last resort), but even this last option should normally cost less than £100. There is also a chance that the injector will be damaged and need to be replaced, these can be quite expensive (especially if you buy a new one from Honda!) and you need to also pay someone with a Honda Diagnostic System (or equivalent) to 'code' the car ECU with the new injector detail (not urgent, but will need doing sooner rather than later) so extra expense there.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Cheers for the info Jon and Jenga, very helpful :)

And cheers for the tip Gaz.

I found out yesterday that an old contact of mine is working over at Collins Honda in Bexhill so am waiting for a price from him which should be in today or tomorrow.


Cheers all, will keep u posted.

Jim.


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Discussion Starter #8
Hi all, just to keep u updated, I heard back from Collins Honda in Bexhill today and they've said they'll do the seals on all 4 injectors, with the knowledge that one is leaky or blowing for £250 all in, with usual dealer facilities like courtesy car etc.

So assuming I can work out the logistics of getting car the 40miles there and back on a day the wife doesn't need to ferry our 2year old around I'm tempted to go for it.


It might be more than I would pay doing it myself or using a mobile mechanic but I think I'd rather someone who I know knows what they're doing does it given that it's a pressurised fuel system and there seems to be so much potential for things to break or go wrong!

What do u guys think?


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The system doesn't stay pressurised for very long after the engine is switched off... no spurts of diesel came out when I disconnected my injectors, only the odd drip. And no leaks afterwards.

Personally, I'd only replace the seal that was leaking... why disturb the 3 that are OK? You can always get them replaced if and when they do leak.

But, bottom line, £250 at a Honda dealer is a good price for all 4.
 

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If you lived closer I would come around and help you do them.
 

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Given the history of trouble getting ctdi injectors out, I, as above would only go for repairing the leaking injector seal. Why disturb those that are sealed ok and risk potential huge expense, frequently injectors are destroyed during the removal process and they are not inexpensive.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi Guys,

Jenga: thank you, it's a shame Edinburgh is about as far away from me as you can lol!

Tristan (and others who have suggested the same): I see what you're saying, and it does make sense, I may well book it in with Collins but ask them to just do the one faulty one.

Am just work g out the logistics of getting the car to Bexhill but will keep you posted.

Thanks all.
Jim.


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Honda agreed to change all of my injector seals after 1st seal went ,then the other a short time later,

the 2 injector seals that were ok they had major problems trying to remove injectors and they broke them,think they are around £400 each
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Right-o, just the broken one it is then! Cheers Davrob!


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Given the history of trouble getting ctdi injectors out, I, as above would only go for repairing the leaking injector seal. Why disturb those that are sealed ok and risk potential huge expense, frequently injectors are destroyed during the removal process and they are not inexpensive.
My no 1 injector started to leak last week. Had it booked into diesel shop for end of week and was buying a spare injector in case injector broke on way out. Anyway my mechanic was fitting my new polybushes to rear beam this morning and I had conveniently left cover off engine. After a bit of rooting and some penetrating fluid the little dear came loose and a quick phonecall to me + dash to diesel shop to collect seal for him saw car back together by lunch time. I'd say he charged me about €40 for the job(Bushes prob took alittle longer and brought bill up to €100 in total)
 

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Hello All,

A newbie here (I've read the forum from time to time and had some great advice, so thought I'd sign up)

So here's my problem.

I have a Civic 2.2 CTDi 06 Plate I can smell exhaust fumes in the cabin and read all of the stories of cracked manifiolds on here, so took it to Listers Honda in Solihiull.

I'm out of warranty, however Honda Uk have agreed to pay for the parts, as long as it was diagnosed by a dealer, so Listers have checked it and said there's evidence of soot on the manifold and consistent with a crack and quoted £262 for labour charges to fix it (3.5 hrs) Seems reasonable as Brindley Honda in West Brom quoted nearly twice this for the labour. So far so good. Does that all seem ok?

They also said one of my injectors is blowing (hence me posting here) I have a tiny bit of residue around one of the injectors, but literally a tiny bit of damp, so it's obvious something isn't right with the injector.

So he's my dilemma. How legit are Dealers? Could the smell of fumes in my cabin purely be the injector and NOT the manifold? (it was me that suggested this to them and told them I had authorisation to have the repair done with Honda UK paying. So would they say it was cracked if it wasn't in order to make cash off the labour and then also off the injector?

When quoting for the Injector the Technician said it's probably the copper seals that needs replacing, but then the service manager said, I was most likely looking at a new Injector (500+ fitted) As they often couldn't get them off on cars with over 100k on the clock and a special tool would need to be ordered from Honda to do the job?? I then spoke to the Tech again after he disappeared who again said in most instances they can get the injectors off and it's the copper seals that are the problem (as I've read on here)

So I'm concerned. Are they A. Telling the truth on the manifold? (the fumes could be coming from either that or the injector) would a dealer lie like that? and also what's with the conflicting stories on the injector and whether it could be cleaned and the seals replaced (Approx £130 for about 2 hours labour and parts) or £500+ if they can't get the injector out (or according to service guy, pretty standard that I'll need the injector replaced?

Any advice on any of the above would help. Prices given, are they fair? How credible is the dealer? would they say something needing replacing if it didn't? Would they just charge for a new injector if the other one could be released? The service manager has made me all nervous as I have just left work on medical grounds so don't have the cash for both the manifold and the full repair of the injector (but could manage the manifold and the injector being cleaned and copper washers replaced etc! difference of about £400

Thank you and I hope this rambled post makes sense?? Great forum folks!
 

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Both the cracked manifold and a leaking injector seal are known problems, but you're unlucky to have both! The leaking injector will be self-evident, once the plastic engine top cover is removed (easy job, four 10mm nuts, don't drop the washers, OK to drive around with it removed) you can easily see any leakage at the base of the injectors. The cracked exhaust manifold is slightly less easy to positively confirm, but almost always is worse cold... If you lift the bonnet first thing in the morning and get an assistant to start the engine, if the manifold is cracked then you'll probably see a puff of smoke rising up between the bulkhead and rear of the engine within a second or two of the engine firing up.

The injector will get worse if left, and may become a pig to remove. Damage is common when removing an injector that has become glued in with coke and crap. Unfortunately a new one is around £330, a secondhand one might be ok, but a tested recon on would be safer.

Can't help with dealer pricing, sorry.
 

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Both the cracked manifold and a leaking injector seal are known problems, but you're unlucky to have both! The leaking injector will be self-evident, once the plastic engine top cover is removed (easy job, four 10mm nuts, don't drop the washers, OK to drive around with it removed) you can easily see any leakage at the base of the injectors. The cracked exhaust manifold is slightly less easy to positively confirm, but almost always is worse cold... If you lift the bonnet first thing in the morning and get an assistant to start the engine, if the manifold is cracked then you'll probably see a puff of smoke rising up between the bulkhead and rear of the engine within a second or two of the engine firing up.

The injector will get worse if left, and may become a pig to remove. Damage is common when removing an injector that has become glued in with coke and crap. Unfortunately a new one is around £330, a secondhand one might be ok, but a tested recon on would be safer.

Can't help with dealer pricing, sorry.
Cheers for the feedback. I can see a little residue around the injector, so it's defo leaking/blowing. My concern was the technician saying it was a case of removing and new seals and then the service manager saying it's most likely going to be a complete new injector and not just the seals as they can't get them out without damaging. So that's what made me a little sceptical.

Has anybody got experience of Listers Honda Solihull? Are they a good dealer? Reliable, trustworthy? Would a dealer say an injector needed replacing if they could get it off undamaged just to make extra cash?
 

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As they sit in a well, a little residue at the base of an injector may have accumulated from a leak above, perhaps a weeping injector line (or even careless oil filling, if number one injector)? Can you actually hear, or feel, it 'puffing'? If youre unsure, then spray a load of WD40 onto the base and then watch for bubbling when the engine is running.

I think they're just being cautious by warning you about the possible breakage. If you don't trust them, then use a diesel specialist to do the work (but make sure they recode the ECU with the cal data if a replacement injector is fitted). I got all four of my injectors out without special tools and without damaging any, even at 160k miles... so it is possible.
 
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