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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

Now, given this is a Honda forum I now I cannot expect the replies to be totally objective. Nevertheless, I would like your opinion on this matter.

As you may have readsometime in 13 or 14, I'll be in the market for a new car.
I'm considering the cars mentioned. Originally, I'd ditched Subaru because they are very expensive. However, I like the AWD on them, and since it will be a family car, the wife agrees that AWD would be a nice safety feature.

I'm no "race guy" by any means, hence, 0-62 aren't that important to me. My current Swift 1.3 does this "sprint in around 12,3 secs, and that's fast enough for me.

Due to the high prices on Subarus I will have to settle for the newly engineered 1.6 petrol. It's not a fast car/engine combination by any means (13.8 secs from 0-62 with the CVT, which I need). However, the MPGs of this AWD car is now slightly better than that of the 2012 1.8 civic A/T, which I think is good considering the AWD! :D

What's more, in the Danish reviews, the 1.6/CVT combi is praised as a "good match between economy (MPGs) and power because, whilst the displacement is quite small, this little engine is described as delivering decent low down torque (for a 1.6, that is).

Now, a newly designed engine may be a reason to worry. Subaru's boxer diesel turned out to have a lot of "teething problems", however, I haven't heard of any real problems with the petrol (2.0), and from now and two year forward, I guess potential problems with the new 1.6 will have revealed themselves.

Subaru 1.6 pros:

AWD (permanent safety feature AND a bit more capable although I don't see myself going of road very often. In the winter time AWD will be awesome though).
MPGs same as comparable non AWD cars.
Best child protection ever tested in NCAP.
Overall, Subarus are known to be quality.

Subaru 1.6 cons:

Slow accelration (13.8 secs.)
"Only" 380 litres of boot space. (Although we will live with 200 litres the swift has to offer from our son is infant to two years old)
New engine (Teething problems)
Small dealer network in Denmark (although from May we'll be living just 8 ks from a dealer.
Expensive service (I think.)
and the big one: the Subaru costs 33% more than the civic and has less equipment as standard (not even cd/radio, cruise control via steering wheel and electric folding mirrors).


But I'm worried about the Quality of the new Civic, the dealer network is small too.

What do you think?
 

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Hey,

AWD isn't really a great "safety" feature. My mate owns a subaru wrx and he says it is really bad on snow and ice and thats at slow speeds.
So if this is a big part of your choice read this below.

4WD/AWD systems provide some but not much added safety! Only the convenience, that you don't have spinning tires when starting - or the convenience to get started where a 2WD would not be able to get going. Or the convenience to get up a snowy pass without spinning tires or without mounting chains.
However, once moving the physics for all vehicles are equal. 1WD, 2WD, 4WD, 6WD etc.

All motor vehicles need traction for safe steering -
4WD/AWD does not provide extra traction for steering.

All cars need traction for safe braking - 4WD/AWD does not provide extra traction for braking.


In that sense 2WD is "safer" - it leaves you stranded early and keeps you out of trouble. The trouble only 4WD/AWD owners might get into.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
well, the Subaru AWD moves traction to the wheels that have grip. an ordinary 2 wheel drive car does not, hence, AWD makes sure you always have the most traction possible.

Don't forget: you should still use winter tyres on a Subaru!

Check this out:

 

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Civinfo Wind Up Merchant
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All motor vehicles need traction for safe steering - 4WD/AWD does not provide extra traction for steering.
Not strictly true... The 4wd system in a subaru is brilliantly designed. The added grip round a 'testing' corner by a 4wd car is unbelievable, it's gives a sense of 'pulling' you in the direction at which you aim, assuming your still in control of the vehicle..
And so long as you drive within the limits of yourself and the vehicle, 4wd system suffer less under or over steer than fwd/rwd respectively

All cars need traction for safe braking - 4WD/AWD does not provide extra traction for braking.

If you take into account engine braking it does, jumping on the brakes without dipping the clutch; the engine with aid bring all four wheels to a stop


IMO, 4wd is a great safety feature, especially if the area you live suffers in the winter from ice & snow
 

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I'm yet to see a car fitted with a CVT box get anywhere near the official fuel figures, so I would say wait a while or take one out to see how close you can get.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'll see what happens when this models has a couple of years under its belt. I'm very wary though. They are expensive and equipment levels are poor. Also, the reliability of Subarus is not what it once was. Albeit still quite good. I read many long term tests (Auto Bild, Germany) and they actually had a Kia Ceed score good points after 100,000 ks.
So don't really know what to believe about reliability anymore. It seems you can find a statistic that will be to your liking regardless of what cars you like!
 

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Arfurs right hand man
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I'm yet to see a car fitted with a CVT box get anywhere near the official fuel figures, so I would say wait a while or take one out to see how close you can get.
You're right. i've been driving an auto jazz lately and it BETTER than the quoted figures!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It's just that with an XV/Impreza i would have to compromise with regards to acceleration and trim level and boot space. In return I would get AWD.
 

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The Subarus I have driven in the winter (with good studded Hakka tyres) have had excellent traction and handling in the snow.

However, it's not often that I have really been stuck with 2WD, so I don't think I would trade space, trim level and acceleration for 4WD.
 

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i would take the AWD but just because i live in Finland and we get a lot of snow in the winter. my civic was stuck 3 times last winter. it wasnt fun :(
 

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Helpee
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I went from a Subaru Impreza to a Civic. I had the Impreza for 5 years, no problems, well built and reliable. Only changed for economy (Mine was a WRX).

Nothing is good on ice, but the Subaru was great on snow. It had no traction control though (maybe the new one does?) and I find the traction control excellent on the Civic, but AWD is always going to be better.
 
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