2006+ Honda Civic Forum banner
1961 - 1980 of 2003 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,961 ·
I agree no need for 0w in the UK but it is being used by manufacturers to try and squeeze every ounce on economy out of the engines.

Cheers,

Guy
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
413 Posts
Yes - emissions standards & economy seem to be the reason, I do wonder what our MPG could be if the standards for emissions were less stringent - more miles on less fuel = less polluting. Diesels seem to be particularly compromised - 40mpg is about the best I can hope for from my Freelander 2 with all its gubbins to deal with emissions - not great for a diesel at all IMHO. I do agree with reducing emissions in cities and built up areas (and diesels never were suitable cars for a city), but then when I lived in a city I hardly drove within the city, Diesel emissions in rural areas are really not a problem - and I'd speculate less MPG due to stringent standards is less green than more MPG & slightly more emissions. Would be interesting to see a calculation of the difference..
 

·
i-Vtec
Joined
·
4,667 Posts
Personally I'm using 5w-30 currently (1.8 9th gen), no need whatsoever for a 0w in the UK as far as temps go
Temp no, Chain driven engine yes. I've been using 0w20 Petronas 7000 for two years now and cant fault it, especially the price. I watched many "Chain Rattling" threads on the Vectra forums due to people not using the correct oil. Mind you it doesn't help when dealers want to sell people 10w40 when 5w30 is the correct standard. Most chain damage happens at start up so the thinner the oil for faster lubrication the better as far as im concerned.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,964 ·
Yes - emissions standards & economy seem to be the reason, I do wonder what our MPG could be if the standards for emissions were less stringent - more miles on less fuel = less polluting. Diesels seem to be particularly compromised - 40mpg is about the best I can hope for from my Freelander 2 with all its gubbins to deal with emissions - not great for a diesel at all IMHO. I do agree with reducing emissions in cities and built up areas (and diesels never were suitable cars for a city), but then when I lived in a city I hardly drove within the city, Diesel emissions in rural areas are really not a problem - and I'd speculate less MPG due to stringent standards is less green than more MPG & slightly more emissions. Would be interesting to see a calculation of the difference..
Interesting question. It is also further compounded in the new generation of TGDI engines that suffer from low speed pre ignition (LSPI), that can be fatal to the engine. It can be engineered out, but the cost is fuel efficiency/economy and emissons, so other solutions have had to be found to stop these little puppies blowing up. The main change is in the additive pack in the oil used in TGDI engines.

Cheers,
Guy
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
413 Posts
That is a vectra engine Das - until relatively recently Honda did not spec a 0w oil (5w-30 IS a Honda spec oil for my vehicle) and I don't think there were problems for chains with a 5w - my Accord certainly was fine for all of its long life & I didn't hear of chain issues - there will be practically no difference between an older (non 0w specced) and newer Honda engine when it comes to the chain mechanism
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,966 ·
Agreed on the chain. I would think 0w-20 is purely for economy reasons. Many Honda's come out the factory with 0w-16 in them and have done for years, again for economy. When Honda release their MPG figures for new models they will all have been tested with the thinnest oil they can get in there. Only to never reach that MPG again when they went from 0w-16 to 5w-30 at first service.

Cheers,

Guy
 

·
i-Vtec
Joined
·
4,667 Posts
until relatively recently Honda did not spec a 0w oil
What you classing as recently? There's a Castrol/Honda leaflet in my handbook wallet that states 0w/30. So thats going back to at least 2009, In fact its the oil they are pretty much recommending. 10w40 if nothing else is available.
316875

.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
413 Posts
My point was Das, that chain issues are very rare - regardless of if you chose a 0w or a 5w - Personally I would not go to a 10w40 (or any 40 oil) - that is more viscous at ALL temperatures - but a 5w-30 or 0w-30 will both be absolutely fine for Honda chain engines - Vauxhalls or any other manufacturer may be different.

Chain wear is, in my opinion and experience, a non consideration when choosing between the 2 cold ratings (0w or 5w)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,653 Posts
My indie puts 5w/30 in the 1.8 and Honda dealer uses 0W/30 in the FN2
 

·
i-Vtec
Joined
·
4,667 Posts
Its just like "whats the best wax" question. Well its what everyone says is the best, everyone has their favourite. My first oil change was with 0w/40 because that's what the last owner used. I then went down to 0w/20 and will continue using it. I checked my oil for the first time in months today and its still not used any since its last oil and filter change last march, 6300 miles ago.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
413 Posts
Agreed Das :) - and good call moving from a 40 weight IMHO (y)

Had I not had a quantity of suitable 5w-30 sitting in the garage when I first changed the oil on mine (prev had 0w in (Honda serviced)) I would never had found that the engine is quieter and feels smoother with the 5w
 

·
i-Vtec
Joined
·
4,667 Posts
Id have most likely stuck with 0w/40 but wanted to see if the 0w/20 did improve mpg. It didn't, but I was that happy with the 0w/20 Ive stuck to it. There is no "Weight" in oil btw, I blame Johnny Tran in fast and the furious for that one. The first number with the W is the Winter rating. The second is the viscosity rating at 100 degrees C. The higher the second number the better it is at staying stable at high temperatures.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,973 ·
Id have most likely stuck with 0w/40 but wanted to see if the 0w/20 did improve mpg. It didn't, but I was that happy with the 0w/20 Ive stuck to it. There is no "Weight" in oil btw, I blame Johnny Tran in fast and the furious for that one. The first number with the W is the Winter rating. The second is the viscosity rating at 100 degrees C. The higher the second number the better it is at staying stable at high temperatures.
I have been blaming Johnny Chan for year for that!

However, the the higher the second number does not mean the more stable it is at high temps, it just means it is thicker at 100degc. For stability many other factors come into play. It can be argued that a good 0w-20 is more shear stable than a 5w-50 or 10w-60 just because of the amount of VI needed just to prop up the viscosity gap.

Cheers,

Guy
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
413 Posts
Yes, I know what the 2nd number refers to - rightly or wrongly it is referred to often (by most as far as I can see) as weight, incidentally the 1st number (0w, 5w or whatever) refers to the viscosity of the oil in an engine that is cold, ie new start in the morning - once the engine (and more importantly fluids) is up to running temp that value becomes meaningless - so calling it "winter" is as misleading as "weight" ;) (we don't seem to have a tongue in cheek emoticon so a wink will have to do :unsure: ) Both these numbers relate to viscosity at a specific temperature (or rather 2 specific temperatures)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,275 Posts
What constitutes a chain issue? My car sounds like a diesel for the first mile but then sounds fine. Doesn't vibrate or anything, if I turn the stereo up I don't even notice either way.

My car was filled with 5w-30 according to the chunks of history I have, I put 0w-30 in it last year when I got it and now 0w-20 the other day.

I don't rev the car hard very often and I predominately drive it below 3k rpm.
 

·
i-Vtec
Joined
·
4,667 Posts
incidentally the 1st number (0w, 5w or whatever) refers to the viscosity of the oil in an engine that is cold, ie new start in the morning - once the engine (and more importantly fluids) is up to running temp that value becomes meaningless - so calling it "winter" is as misleading as "weight"
Its not meaningless. Back when M8TJT was a boy there were no such things as Multigrade oils like we have today. You ran a thin oil in the winter months and in the spring swapped to a thicker oil for the summer. As an example with 10W/40 the 10W being the Winter rating and the 40 the Summer rating. When Multigrades came along there was no need to do this.

What constitutes a chain issue?
Normally a worn chain shows itself as a Rattle from a cold start. Its not the chain that is the issue but actually the tensioner. Oil pressure puts tension on the tensioner which in turn takes up slack in the chain. Without the tension the chain slaps about inside the housing. Chains are technically designed for the life of an engine. However if people cop out on oil and filter service, using the incorrect oil and/or quality oil sludge can block oil ways that send pressure to the tensioner which in turn leads to play in the chain, which will lead to a broken chain. Its normally only a momentary thing, maybe a couple of seconds. I forget if you have had the valve clearances done? Mine is absolutely silent at start up, even this winter when I saw -9 one morning, and I haven't done the valve clearances.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,275 Posts
I've had valve clearances done but they were by a Mazda dealer as they're aligned with Honda where I live... I might give it a go myself as it doesn't look that hard and it'll be a nice little gander inside the engine!

I'm changing oil every 6 months with OEM filters so the engine should be running sweetly from now on. Plugs and other filters are all new. I'll be doing the fuel filter soon as I've got a SH one to disassemble and might do the PCV if it even makes much difference. Likely won't need to do it again in the life of the car!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,980 ·
10w-40 semi synthetic or 5w-40 full synthetic would be a better choice. ACEA A3/B4 is fine, whilst ISLAC GF-5 and GF-6 are technically better the differences in them are designed to meet issues that do not relate to a D14A4. ISLAC GF-5 was introduced in 2010 for vehicles manufactured from 2011 and the GF-6 is aimed at new generation GDTI engines that suffer from LSPI. Can you use them? Of course, but there will be little gain.

Where abouts are you?

Cheers,

Guy
 
1961 - 1980 of 2003 Posts
Top