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Discussion Starter #1
Getting zero Strim I think must be very hard especially given that you may need to tweak the ATM calibration to get a leaner WOT

I'd be interested in hearing how others have gone about tuning their AFM calibration.

Whilst on the subject is there any easy way to reset ltrim?
 

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0 it's impossible every time.
the normal is +- 3 (this is the normal on a stock car).
I only tune this by live tuning.

i start the car and, at idle, I tune to 0, then i tune the car running at every "throttle pressure" possible (I stop the car several times to change the maf values)

the only real problem is the 3.0v as it is used at PT and WOT, but I prefer to tune for best at WOT.

i retune every month or so.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Why do you retune every month or so? To refine it or for some other reason?
 

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this ecu don't have a good temperature compensation. I notice that "perfect" map is not so good when the temperature changes. So i lose some 30 minutes and live tune the car every month.
 

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the only real problem is the 3.0v as it is used at PT and WOT, but I prefer to tune for best at WOT.

Actually, as far down 2.4v is used for PT and WOT.

You'll never have a perfect 0% strim unless you retune constantly. IMO that is a waste of time. If you can get the car tuned to run within a specific "window", experience has shown that the car runs very well across all driving parameters. Of course... I prefer speed density on these cars due to various issues with Hondas AFM logic.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Actually, as far down 2.4v is used for PT and WOT.

You'll never have a perfect 0% strim unless you retune constantly. IMO that is a waste of time. If you can get the car tuned to run within a specific "window", experience has shown that the car runs very well across all driving parameters. Of course... I prefer speed density on these cars due to various issues with Hondas AFM logic.
Losing the fuel gauge is a bit of an issue for us though. I don't know why it is such an issue for Hondata and why it can't be fixed. Not enough space in the flash memory for the fuel gauge software? Do the US cars have the same issue?

What's the reason for the constant rework Vit? Same as Nuno?
 

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Losing the fuel gauge is a bit of an issue for us though. I don't know why it is such an issue for Hondata and why it can't be fixed. Not enough space in the flash memory for the fuel gauge software? Do the US cars have the same issue?

What's the reason for the constant rework Vit? Same as Nuno?
The fuel gauge doesn't stop working on the FN2's. What breaks is stuff like the gas mileage meter, etc... Marcin/Dawid can comment further. The MAP tuning software is the JDM FD2 ECU ROM adapted to work on USDM and Euro models (bet some people didn't know this... ;) )

On USDM Si's we do not have a gas mileage meter. The FN2's got a fancier gauge cluster and the MAP rom basically doesn't have this functionality. On the USDM models we do lose our oil life meter and maintenance minder... no one really cares about those LOL
 

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The fuel gauge doesn't stop working on the FN2's. What breaks is stuff like the gas mileage meter
It just starts to work in a weird way. If you drive on a short ways - it works good, if you are driving 300km longer way, than after a period of time the gauge is starting to go down to zero, and than it's getting back to the correct position. Of course it's not working like on MAF, but it can't be said that it stops working at all. :)

Range, and average consumption stop working on MAP.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The fuel gauge doesn't stop working on the FN2's. What breaks is stuff like the gas mileage meter, etc... Marcin/Dawid can comment further. The MAP tuning software is the JDM FD2 ECU ROM adapted to work on USDM and Euro models (bet some people didn't know this... ;) )

On USDM Si's we do not have a gas mileage meter. The FN2's got a fancier gauge cluster and the MAP rom basically doesn't have this functionality. On the USDM models we do lose our oil life meter and maintenance minder... no one really cares about those LOL
No, I did know that from Hondata's quotes on the subject, just wondered if there was a way that Hondata could make the MAP cal work on FN2s AND keep the gas mileage meter (and not have the dancing fuel guage). I guess it is just a programming issue and that not enough people have asked for it?
 

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I believe the issue with trying to get the gas mileage meter and such to work is the fact it depends on an air mass calculation from the AFM sensor... which on MAP tunes does not exist anymore. The AFM sensor can be deleted on MAP tuned cars because the ECU simply isn't programmed to see it anymore (like my car... I no longer have an AFM sensor installed).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Understood, but technically they COULD have a hybrid setup where it used MAP but retained the AFM setting purely for the fuel gauge - unless there is not enough physical space in the ECU flash to store the code?
 

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Theoretically, yes.

In practice, the amount of space on the ECU is limited. They've already crammed extra code in there to give us stuff like aftermarket wideband logging, boost by gear, etc. If there is extra space left over there is still so much more we could use...

- Nitrous control...
- Lean protection...
- Fuel comp by gear...
- Working gear selector when changing final drives and gear ratios (currently the gear selector in the ECU does not take into account any gearing... it's a really simple RPM vs VSS based selector with only the stock gearing in mind).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yeh - I guess more useful stuff will get put in as you can live with the lack of a fuel computer.
 

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Vitviper - you might have the interface to say you have certain functions but unfortunatly the Euro FN2 ECU isn't as blessed with the functionality of the US Si one. For complex operations like the wideband input and boost control we have to install the US versions.
Was same with the Euro EP3s.

I wonder if it's possibly also a cut down version as well hence seeing some of the other things like the faulting sensors not throwing errors or going open loop as they should??

Also if you change injector size but stay MAF your computers sometimes go screwy! :lol:
 

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Vitviper - you might have the interface to say you have certain functions but unfortunatly the Euro FN2 ECU isn't as blessed with the functionality of the US Si one. For complex operations like the wideband input and boost control we have to install the US versions.
Was same with the Euro EP3s.
I know for a fact you can wire a wideband into the ELD input on the FN2 ECU.

I wonder if it's possibly also a cut down version as well hence seeing some of the other things like the faulting sensors not throwing errors or going open loop as they should??
The ECU will always go open loop if tuned to do so. If you're referring to not going open loop during a sensor failure... that has nothing to do with FlashPro. Honda's logic isn't very good at pick up certain types of O2 sensor failures. But it's nothing a simple look at a datalog can't verify.

Also if you change injector size but stay MAF your computers sometimes go screwy! :lol:
I've tuned forced induction via AFM. It works quite well. Not as good as speed density, but quite acceptable given it's Honda's AFM logic (which isn't very good to begin with).
 

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Yeah was on about sensor failures.
Your correct you do need to check the datalogs but the majority of FN2 owners don't have a flashpro and are running stock ECUs.
Question is I guess is the lack of feedback for failing/faulty sensors due to actual ECU functionality from design and manufacture or down to the reflashing by Hondatas firmware reflash?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
That's a good question that's probably very hard to answer as we probably don't get to find out those guys as they don't tune!
 

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:popcorn:
 

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Yeah was on about sensor failures.
Your correct you do need to check the datalogs but the majority of FN2 owners don't have a flashpro and are running stock ECUs.
Question is I guess is the lack of feedback for failing/faulty sensors due to actual ECU functionality from design and manufacture or down to the reflashing by Hondatas firmware reflash?
I believe it's due to ECU design. Although the stock sensor is a "mostly" wideband type (works great for N/A), Honda tuned the car to run in open loop at WOT so as far as Honda is concerned... it doesn't matter if the sensor eventually degrades and is not accurate for WOT tuning. It's our responsibility as modders and tuners to catch these failures (and it's not hard if you know what to look for) since we've taken the car out of "stock" running parameters.

For example, on my own car, when I have just bolt ons (no F/I), the stock sensor reads 12.2:1 AF.Corr, but the AEM UEGO is actually 13.0. But with F/I (Supercharger) it would within .1 afr of the UEGO, so obviously (and we've known this for a while) there is an EGT and pressure component that plays in the accuracy of the sensor. My stock O2 sensor has 62,000 miles and is due for replacement based on how it's reading... however as far as Honda is concerned, the sensor has not failed (no codes, and closed loop at light load/cruise is 100% accurate).

That said, the stock O2 works GREAT for N/A tuning when it's working properly.
 

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Vitviper - you might have the interface to say you have certain functions but unfortunatly the Euro FN2 ECU isn't as blessed with the functionality of the US Si one. For complex operations like the wideband input and boost control we have to install the US versions.
Was same with the Euro EP3s.
I also used the A23 ELD ecu pinout to feed my LC1 controller. At first I had a huge grounding problem, had to input 1.43 Offset to match the afr values to that of the stock O2 sensor readings, but I managed to reduce the ground offset to 0.4 volt. I also narrowed the resolution to 1.34-2.4 Volt. This amounts to an AFR measurement of 12.17- 15.71 : 1 in my case. Due to the quirkiness of the system Hondata designed into it I cannot measure below 12:1 afr`s wihich is a bit of a handicap for me because with my 100 bhp nitrous shot I aim for a 11.7:1 AFR at full throttle. I just have to compare the afr between the stock O2 sensor and the Wideband as far as the latter goes, then I try to correlate the Afr to the 11,7:1 I need with some guesswork.
Besides that I use the good old sparkplug reading to get the AFR`s right on the nitrous, but it`s a pita everytime to dismantle half the car to get to the plugs.
 
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