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VSA on snow, dangerous?

VSA 
21K views 51 replies 25 participants last post by  J. Derek Riddell 
#1 ·
So we just got about 30 cm of nice fresh snow where i live, and the plows where a bit slow on getting all the roads clear. Since i have never tested my CTR on this kind of surface i took it out for a short trip of about 12 km to see how it was.

As i said the roads are snow covered, and for the most part not been cleared yet. This lead to some rather unstable conditions when other cars had gone before me. On the slow parts, 50-60 km/h, it was ok. Was driving with VSA on. Anti-spin was a bit to quick to take control, but nothing major.

The dangerous, and what scared me, was when i got out on a pretty straight road where the speed limit is 80 km/h. Same road conditions, nice powder that other cars have driven on. When i got up to some speed, somewhere between 60 and 75 i started to notice a slight pendulum effect in the rear of the car. I slowed down to 40-50 but it continued and increased over time. As soon as i turned the VSA off the car straightened out again and i got much more control.

What i think happened was that the rear shifted slightly in its tracks due to the tracks left of other cars in front of me. Then the VSA picked this up and tried to compensate. Because of the slippery conditions the car started going the other way and the VSA compensated again, leading to a pendulum effect in the rear. Does this sound plausible?

It put a bit of a scare in me seeing that slowing down had no effect, but that turning the VSA off did. I'm considering driving with it off now as long as im not just driving slowly in the city.

Edit: Just to clarify, i have proper winter tyres, Nokian Hakkapelitta without spikes on original 18" rims, 55/225.
 
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#11 ·
Could be, but why would it stop when VSA gets turned off then?

Did you try turning the VSA back on again to confirm that when it was back on, the same thing happened, and then off again to confirm that's definately what stopped it? If not, it's possible it was just a coincidence that whatever was causing it (road camber + snow, the way the tracks were, etc) stopped at the same time you turned VSA off.
I don't think its as easy as that to test it, since it was most likely a combination of several factors. I will however use the VSA when going on a 500 km trip now just before christmas, and it looks like we will have snowy conditions most of the trip.

Anyone remember what the weight ratio front to back is on a CTR?

Deep snow and slippery conditions ? - VSA off and very gentle with throttle and brakes. ...
Yes, i know that :) Been driving every winter the last ten years, but never experienced this sort of problem in previous cars. Had a 97 Honda Civic Coupe, 88 Nissan Bluebird (Stanza), and a 08 Mitsubishi Lancer Sport Sedan. Only the Mitsubishi had any sort of fancy VSA. I am starting to wonder if the shorter wheelbase of the CTR might have anything to do with it to/making the situation worse.
 
#4 ·
As soon as i turned the VSA off the car straightened out again and i got much more control.
Did you try turning the VSA back on again to confirm that when it was back on, the same thing happened, and then off again to confirm that's definately what stopped it? If not, it's possible it was just a coincidence that whatever was causing it (road camber + snow, the way the tracks were, etc) stopped at the same time you turned VSA off.
 
#16 ·
:) I take it you have not had the civic long?

first time you drive it on proper snow/ice it might be the last time you want to do so.

Might just be the I-Shifts that have more problems, but mine the front end just totally locks and takes some efford to keep it undercontrol

just becareful when on snow and ice.


and the VSA off does slightly help but i'd rather not risk it, was just for pulling away i had tried it :)..
 
#8 ·
Deep snow and slippery conditions ? - VSA off and very gentle with throttle and brakes. ...
 
#10 ·
#17 ·
Ths said:
What i think happened was that the rear shifted slightly in its tracks due to the tracks left of other cars in front of me
I have never experienced something like this this with my 1.8 even though many roads in eastern Norway are pretty much like two deep worn out tracks, almost like a "railway line" during winter... There must be a real slide starting for the VSA to kick in, small adjustments or settlements are allowed by the VSA. If the VSA is engaged, you would feel and hear it more clearly I believe. But maybe the FN2 is different though?




Doesn't the ABS work independently of the VSA? You can't switch the ABS off I think.
 
#15 ·
it might be in fact. snow "tracks" left by previous cars are quite a problem with electronic controls because in fact the car steers or "changes position on the road" and the steering wheel is not involved in this process. i guess it might sortof be fooled by it..

comes to mind a mail i read some time ago with cruise control and the uhm. how to call it in english. water planing? (the phenomenon where your car acts as an hovercraft with big/deep water pool taken at decent speed). the cars of course slows down, and the cruise control throttles like hell to compensate the lost of speed.

i guess the lesson learned is: better on or better off, what's best really is having your brain ready to deactivate those damn thingies in no time when all gets out of hand :)
 
#19 ·
I was out for a fair bit of driving today.

We have around 15cm of snow last night, so in total about 30cm now.
It continued to snow quite hard during parts of the day too.

I never experienced anything like you described.
I would say either there was something very specific with the road you were on or there is some kind of fault with your car.

I had to turn the VSA off to drive up my fairly steep drive way (couldn't be bothered to shovel the snow out of the way), but after that I was more than happy to keep it ON all the time. :D
 
#20 ·
Yeeppp - got 'stuck' yesterday, exiting a roundabout up a sharp and steep turn - with VSA on as normal ...

Turned VSA off, gave it some 'welly' and powered my way up, no problem ! ...
 
#22 ·
I have a steep drive and in the snow can only get out of my drive with VSA off. I get confused though as having turned it off the light comes on but then on the flat the light goes off of its own like the car has automatically turned VSA back on.

On icy roads the car feels like it has a flat tyre until I turn off VSA then it drives perfectly.
 
#23 ·
Impressed with the VSA this last week, with snow and ice everywhere. The estate on which I live, which is hilly and never visited by a gritter, can be treacherous with just a few inches of snow. A couple of times the front or back end started to go, yet the car snapped back under control in the blink of an eye each time.
 
#24 ·
Did about 600 km the last week going to and from christmas visit, and did not experience the same thing that i described in my opening post. To be honest i think this was due to very difficult and specific circumstances. I did drive on pretty much every kind of winter road condition though, and tried most of it with and without VSA on. For cruising on normal hard packed snowy/icy surface it didn't make much difference with it on or of. On a road with lots of turns and snow surface i prefer having it off to get better front tyre grip when accelerating (no constant cutting of power whenever a small wheelspin occurs). On snowy roads that had been salted and turned into a fine mush i also prefer to have it off to allow some wheelspin, and to let the car move naturally in the snow. I did not like it interfering all the time just because the car wanted to move a little bit sideways due to road conditions when there was no danger.

All in all i must say i prefer having it off since i think it is a bit to intrusive. Maybe its a CTR thing, dunno. Just about every car i have had has been of a older model (except 2008 Lancer Sport Sedan, but i only felt anti spin in that one, and it only had the 1.8 L engine) have not had any sort of anti spin and stability control, and i guess i maybe learned to drive without it.
 
#26 ·
Errmmm - NO surprise if I suggest that the problem is the lack of 'Nordic' winter tyres ! ...

I can damn near drive up mountains with my "Conti Viking Contact" tyres on - only when it is extremely icy (and at walking speed) do I need to turn VSA off ...
 
#27 · (Edited)
it took me 5 hours to drive 4 miles home tonight from work, due to traffic problems caused by roads being closed because of snow & sheet ice, on the two inclines i drove up the vsa was kicking in and either applying the brakes or reducing the power to stop the wheel spin, after reading some posts on here, i turned off the vsa and applied more revs, the front tyres bit in and it worked a treat, there was no way it would of climbed up otherwise, but still lots of buttock clenching going on !!!!!! i'm glad it's there but very occasionally it could hinder your progress, roll on summer!
 
#32 ·
Leave it ON, unless you find you are actually getting stuck - then turn it off and drive very slowly until you are moving again, then turn it back on a.s.a.p. ...
 
#33 ·
I found while driving along roads that had 'tramlines' (caused by tyre tracks making a path in the snow followed by a harsh freeze), driving with VSA on tended to make the car swerve side-to-side slightly; as the VSA detected the back tyre sliding, it would brake the other wheel, causing it to leave the 'tramline' and then bounce back into it, and vice versa on the other wheel :popcorn2:

With VSA off this effect was much less noticeable.
 
#34 ·
I found while driving along roads that had 'tramlines' (caused by tyre tracks making a path in the snow followed by a harsh freeze), driving with VSA on tended to make the car swerve side-to-side slightly; as the VSA detected the back tyre sliding, it would brake the other wheel, causing it to leave the 'tramline' and then bounce back into it, and vice versa on the other wheel :popcorn2: With VSA off this effect was much less noticeable.
Good point - always try to not drive in the ruts - the grip is better on fresher snow and you avoid using the front skirt as a snowplough ! ...
 
#37 ·
i've also got rages on with brand new tyres with 8mm tread. but boy do they handle bad on icy roads!!

the 16" standard alloys handle soo much better, but I havent had chance to place them on yet.

and to top it off, im still running summer screenwash, so the ratios way out! and the container seems to have frozen... :(

I do hope the ice melts away soon, as its a mission for me to drive and i dont want to crash the civ!
 
#38 ·
i've also got rages on with brand new tyres with 8mm tread. but boy do they handle bad on icy roads!!

the 16" standard alloys handle soo much better, but I havent had chance to place them on yet.

and to top it off, im still running summer screenwash, so the ratios way out! and the container seems to have frozen... :(

I do hope the ice melts away soon, as its a mission for me to drive and i dont want to crash the civ!
sorry to say but god does that make me feel better knowing its not just me....i have asked a few other people with different cars and they dont seem to have as much of a problem than my death trap!!:mad:
 
#40 ·
A little pointer on driving on thick snow or slush, DO NOT BREAK HARD or continue to hold onto the brake even gently, for example when going down hill, use the engine breaking to help you slow down, this helps you to stay under control, VSA does help, i always keep it on, u just need to counter act it when you feel the car is slightly pulling u to the side a bit. Remeber the general rules if your car is sliding to the right steer in that direction, it will help with traction, off gas break gently. Vehicle gizmos can only do so much, but if you lose control very badly, there is nothing much u can do. Prevention is so much better hence SLOW! So if u must drive, do so slowly or stay home and make a cuppa!
 
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