[Honcho]

With Honda's crown jewels...reliability, build, quality control...being tarnished by a cascade of faults, niggles and poor workmanship on the Civic line, one has to wonder about the allocation of future launches. The fact that other manufacturers are worse is totally irrelevant.

 

[Uffe]

I've been thinking about this too for some time now, I trust Honda will soon make some serious management decisions for the the whole manufacturing process in Swindon, quality being the top priority, if they haven't done it already. It just can't continue like this cause they will loose their crown jewels quickly, especially here in Europe!
Top quality has traditionally been a top priority issue in Japanese industry, that's why I believe they will take this very serious.

 

[mikel]

Shouldn't some responsibility go to the designers, lets face it a fuel filler cap that does or does not open can hardly be blamed on Swindon?

Mike

 

[richierich]

Perhaps someone in Swindon needs to Google 6 Sigma?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Six_sigma.svg

 

[Honcho]

Shouldn't some responsibility go to the designers, lets face it a fuel filler cap that does or does not open can hardly be blamed on Swindon?

Mike

You'd think so. But in fact it's a quality control problem. You simply do not continue producing a car which fails to open its mouth! You make the necessary design alteration after testing...not after launching. Quality controllers are not overruled in Japan. I doubt that's the case in Swindon.

 

[JB75]

I thought about this too but concluded that the design and quality control processes might be questioned first. For example, I find it hard to believe that exhaustive testing failed to discover the fuel cap issue, or that nobody seriously thought that the easily marked and scratched dashboard might be unpopular. There's also the abundance of cheap feeling plastic many have drawn attention to; were Honda skimping on the materials or is this just evidence of their desire for a mostly recyclable car?

On the other hand, a spring in my rear suspension was installed upside down, which hardly gives me confidence in the production line at Swindon. It'll be interesting to see if there are any developments.

 

[DUNCAN]

can we trust japan. will thay help ,???????????

 

[Noll2]

You'd think so. But in fact it's a quality control problem. You simply do not continue producing a car which fails to open its mouth! You make the necessary design alteration after testing...not after launching. Quality controllers are not overruled in Japan. I doubt that's the case in Swindon.

Agree!!!
One civic-owner could see that the spring in the rear shockabsorber was mounted upside down...
Seems to me that some one had a pint to much...

 

[WoolyCiv]

You'd think so. But in fact it's a quality control problem. You simply do not continue producing a car which fails to open its mouth! You make the necessary design alteration after testing...not after launching. Quality controllers are not overruled in Japan. I doubt that's the case in Swindon.

Honcho, my experiences over the last 30+ years working in QA and Quality Control departments agree with your statement. QC departments will always be overruled by delivery dates/production quotas unless it is a life threatening situation. I know it is not a good position but it is a fact of life.
The quality of any product is built into it during the production process and this means having a workforce with the correct training/tools at their disposal and a management team with the foresight to believe in quality.
Unfortunately quite often when a new product is put into production, training is carried out 'on the job' by someone who is not skilled in training techniques and quality processes.

Off my soap box now

 

[sco77harris]

i think with the recent investment swindon is safe for a long time

 

[Korkut Varol]

Please have a look at this page.. Honda lies well above the average in manufacturers' quality rankings. And look who sit at the bottom...

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=iqsBrand&subject=iqs&referer=&aff=national

 

[Ancient Nerd]

Please have a look at this page.. Honda lies well above the average in manufacturers' quality rankings. And look who sit at the bottom...

At the moment, yes. However, this will have been determined before the current Civic was in volume production.

Watch this space for next year's rankings.

 

[Korkut Varol]

At the moment, yes. However, this will have been determined before the current Civic was in volume production.

Watch this space for next year's rankings.

I will, and will pray that it does not get de-rated....

 

[Honcho]

At the moment, yes. However, this will have been determined before the current Civic was in volume production.

Watch this space for next year's rankings.

Absolutely. It is precisely because Honda has so much precious reputation to lose that the current situation is so serious. Who'd give a damn if Honda models were usually right down the list?

 

[WoolyCiv]

Please have a look at this page.. Honda lies well above the average in manufacturers' quality rankings. And look who sit at the bottom...

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=iqsBrand&subject=iqs&referer=&aff=national

Just goes to show even the best (Porsche) have .9 problems per vehicle in the first 90 days of ownership, would have thought the best would be more in the range of .4 - .6.
With this showing Honda's 1.1 per vehicle looks quite good.

Er I have just clicked on Honda in the JD Power list, it goes the American Honda site, so are the results based on an American survey if so maybe a European survey may push Honda further down

 

[Honcho]

The problem with quoting examples of the poor reliability of famous marques is that they do not compete with Honda on the same level. Honda is not a truly glamorous badge. It's major attractiveness to the consumer is its reliability. Once that is compromised in any way, it has no prestigious reputation to help it through. (If Mercedes did not possess such a desirable badge, there's absolutely no way they would have weathered their horrendous recent quality problems). Even the smallest niggle is a serious matter when build quality and reliability are your lifeblood. It's counter-intuitive, I know, but a fault on a Porsche is far less serious than a fault on a Honda.

 

[Honcho]

It's major attractiveness should, of course read, Its major attractiveness. Sorry!

 

[Cad]

It's ok Honcho... The grammar squad haven't latched on to Civinfo yet (though my palms get itchy when I see people write 'loose' instead of 'lose' )

 

[Korkut Varol]

........ Even the smallest niggle is a serious matter when build quality and reliability are your lifeblood. It's counter-intuitive, I know, but a fault on a Porsche is far less serious than a fault on a Honda.

I understand that.. If I remember right, there happened to be one rusted screw on a RR Corniche, and that was some BIG news then!

 

[Topcat]

When I told people I was buying a Honda Civic the response was "you cant go wrong with a Honda there great cars". When I got the Civic my friends and neighbours admired it and two of them said they were thinking of buying one. However as soon as my problems began they held off buying an ended up buying a Vauxhall Astra and a Mercedes A class (and neither of them have had a single problem).

Now my friends and neighbours say after seeing what I am putting up with they would never buy a Honda!

Honda's reputation is on a slippery slope.