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Discussion Starter #1
I have just been reading the news thread about the CR-Z and began to think...................?
 

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I think I read somewhere YES, but who knows?! and maybe we´ll be able to buy two versions HYB and NON-HYB...
 

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Doesnt that defeat the point of a hot hatch
 

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Honda have already admitted that their hybrid technology is far from perfected and due to the sheer weight of the hybrid running gear it would be unsuitable for a performance application. Therefore I'm in agreement with Neily in saying no.

EvoStu.
 

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Lexus are in final throws of a new hybrid that is aimed to compete with the 1 Series and A3.

If the quality is anything like my IS200 then they could be on to a winner, subject to toys and price.
 

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I'm not convinced that they'll have a suitably honed performance Hybrid drivetrain to don the 'R' badge, in time for the release of the next Civic. So i'm inclined to say, "Narhhhh!" :razz:
 

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Why on earth would you even want a hybrid on a hot hatch.... Clearly they wouldn't do such a thing anyway!
 

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The idea of a hot hatch that is a hybrid just seems to contradict itself far too much and I would be surprised if the designers at Honda would even entertain the idea. What would be awesome is if they could get the Hydrogen fuel cell to produce hot hatch performance.

Tarmac ripping power with zero emissions - now that would be cool, and I would imagine a more likely way forward. If they could do it and there were the Hydrogen stations in the UK then I would certainly seriously consider one. Especially as I have just had my road tax bill come through and it would nice for it ho have been £0 - a hot hatch with zero road tax that would stick in Mr Browns throat. LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The idea of a hot hatch that is a hybrid just seems to contradict itself far too much and I would be surprised if the designers at Honda would even entertain the idea. What would be awesome is if they could get the Hydrogen fuel cell to produce hot hatch performance.

Tarmac ripping power with zero emissions - now that would be cool, and I would imagine a more likely way forward. If they could do it and there were the Hydrogen stations in the UK then I would certainly seriously consider one. Especially as I have just had my road tax bill come through and it would nice for it ho have been £0 - a hot hatch with zero road tax that would stick in Mr Browns throat. LOL.
I understand what you are saying. But all manufacturers are committed to reducing emissions under EEC legislation. So some 'unfortunate' decisions might be made?

Interestingly, as posted above, Toyota/Lexus have shown that you can have a hybrid with good performance/speed and with lower emissions eg the GS450. So who knows what the future might hold?
 

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When you look at a hybrid system not as a "green" solution, but rather as a KERS-system, maybe it isn't such a bad idea after all. You could save up the kinetic energy from the braking phase, and release the extra power/torque when accelerating again. From a torque point of view, an extra electric engine would add significantly to the fuel engine, especially in the low revs.
But unfortunately there still is no adequate battery or cell technology that is suitable for these kinds of application. The past few years there has been some progress in Li-technology, but still the weight-to-energy ratio is to high, and the technology to store lots of energy in a short period of time (seconds) is a big problem.
So a hybrid TypeR: yes, one day...
 

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I have posted before, I expect the next R to be some type of forced induction, the competition, Ford focus RS 225g/km 301BHP and other turbo competitors have a better C02 to power output.

Honda cant sit on all its bull (high revving N/A stuff), it needs to sort a high revving forced induction unit, something that is far cheaper than a hybrid system is to develope too!

I have been slated (disagreed with before) for this opinion in the past, but i think i am on the ball, only time will tell if i am right!
 

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I expect the next R to be some type of forced induction, the competition, Ford focus RS 225g/km 301BHP and other turbo competitors have a better C02 to power output.only time will tell if i am right!
I really hope you're not right in terms of the forced induction. The KERS idea though is something I have thought about and see no reason why something like that cannot be done. As stated, Lexus have a powerful Hybrid so I can't see any reason why Honda cannot do the same.

It would be nice to keep the philosophy intact - a high revving NA petrol engine. If it has a little help from some Hybrid aspect then so what - it will still be a true R to me :D
 

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I have posted before, I expect the next R to be some type of forced induction, the competition, Ford focus RS 225g/km 301BHP and other turbo competitors have a better C02 to power output.

Honda cant sit on all its bull (high revving N/A stuff), it needs to sort a high revving forced induction unit, something that is far cheaper than a hybrid system is to develope too!

I have been slated (disagreed with before) for this opinion in the past, but i think i am on the ball, only time will tell if i am right!
In some terms I agree with this however Honda throughout their entire history have only produced 2 FI engines for their road cars. One in a Japanese only vehicle and the other in a US only model badged as an Acura.

Honda do NA extremely well but unfortunately they are reaching critical mass on the environmental front. If their hands weren't tied by EU regulations then maybe things would be different but I'll be honest and say I can see them dropping performance models completely rather than produce FI engines.

There are some tough times ahead for sure as technology can only do so much.

EvoStu.
 

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The idea of a hot hatch that is a hybrid just seems to contradict itself far too much and I would be surprised if the designers at Honda would even entertain the idea.
what about kers in F1 that is a hybrid but uses the system for different requirements, a hybrid type R could maybe give you an extra 50bhp at the touch of a button or be programmed to cut in and save fuel / increase mpg
 

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In some terms I agree with this however Honda throughout their entire history have only produced 2 FI engines for their road cars. One in a Japanese only vehicle and the other in a US only model badged as an Acura.

Honda do NA extremely well but unfortunately they are reaching critical mass on the environmental front. If their hands weren't tied by EU regulations then maybe things would be different but I'll be honest and say I can see them dropping performance models completely rather than produce FI engines.

There are some tough times ahead for sure as technology can only do so much.

EvoStu.
It'll be a dark day if that happens :( tbh, but I'm inclined to agree - as I don't seem them opting for forced induction on petrol engines.

I'd prefer if they, perhaps, delayed releasing a performance honed hybrid - rather than release FI, badged up Type-R's - whilst I can appreciate Honda's predicament, from a romantic POV, I'd rather see the brand come to an end, than go against what made it what it is. I don't think it will come to an end though - losing the 'Type-R brand' will be a massive blow to Honda - that's practically the performance side of things, which is arguably where Honda's reputation comes from: Their revvy engines and the associated reliability depsite the revvy nature.

I personally think that the next Civic Type-R will be a 2.0L, running a K-series engine (like we've been used to recently) - with alterations (like the differences seen between the EP's & FN's respective blocks: vtec engagement/cam-change over point, rev-limiter differences etc. etc.). Basically going against what the competition does again, I believe.

I don't think that Honda will drop the performance petrol variants altogether, until they have discovered a viable alternative.

The S2000 has gone (or suffice to say this is its last year - and the ones produced are limited I believe), and as it stands the only performance car available in the UK from Honda is the Civic Type-R, to my knowledge.

Afterall - "Without Racing there is no Honda"
 

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Nobody knows really. With the way technology improves if they can make it happen then do so.... Nobody would have thought ten years back that a diesel could ever win LeMans....
 

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Nobody knows really. With the way technology improves if they can make it happen then do so.... Nobody would have thought ten years back that a diesel could ever win LeMans....
The problem is the technology hasn't improved that much over the past decade. Hybrid technology (in Honda and Toyotas own words) has not moved on that much and still isn't at the level that they expected.

With regards to NA engine technology, they really are close to the limit of what can be achieved with the regulations on emissions that they have to adhere to. Its going to be a struggle for any mass market NA engine manufacturer in the next few years. EU regulations are going to strangle the performance hatch market.

I would happily spend a higher road tax on a 240PS NA Type R though. However lots of others........wouldn't.

EvoStu.
 
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