[NH Dan]

Interesting subject - Your thoughts???

BBC News - Insurance and pension costs hit by ECJ gender ruling

This landmark was reached yesterday and has some pretty interesting sides of the argument......what are your thoughts??

 

[NoNumpty]

People are discussing this here http://www.civinfo.com/forum/any-no...any-non-civic-chat-here-please/52305-gender-descrimination-motor-insurance.html

 

[FWH]

People are discussing this here http://www.civinfo.com/forum/any-no...any-non-civic-chat-here-please/52305-gender-descrimination-motor-insurance.html

Threads merged.

 

[FWH]

You can choose which car you buy.
You can choose how you drive.
You can choose where you live (to some extent, depending on funds).

Changing your gender is a bit more difficult.
I think this is why it may be viewed as discrimination.

Not saying I agree, I just think this is the background.

Then again, you can't choose your age either....

 

[NH Dan]

Threads merged.

and there's me thinking i'd looked all over the forum for it too!!

Cheers

 

[Hartside]

You will also see a drop in future male pensions as at the moment male pensions are calculated against a shorter life expectancy. As this is changed to end "discrimination" you'll get a lower pension payment (in a defined contributions scheme) A lot to thank this Consumer group for, they have done a great job for the companies involved to the detriment of the consumer

 

[robbo51]

What would happen if Black people were statistically more likely to have an accident and Chinese people less likely? So black people pay more....more risk for the insurance company.
A black motorist complains to the European Parliament that he is paying more than the Chinese motorist under race descrimination
Surely...there would be an outcry!!....The PC police would have a field day!!
Isnt this the same???

 

[Kremmen]

You can bet that wimmin's insurance will go up whilst men's insurance stays high.

They won't meet 50/50 to retain current profit levels.

The argument about women haven't less accidents is only true because male drivers outnumber them by 50/1 apparently.

 

[kenP]

The argument about women haven't less accidents is only true because male drivers outnumber them by 50/1 apparently.

The calculations would take account of that.

 

[Newt1]

As has been said before, risk is risk...its not discriminatory its based on fact.

Just another pathetic waste of time by those idiots in Brussels.

 

[Tom's Type R]

I really think it should be a case of innocent till proven guilty. We should all have cheap insurance (regardless of sex or age or location or whatever) till you have a claim then it can go up. That way we are all equal until you prove you aren't.

 

[JohnnyBoy]

FT.com / Brussels - Court outlaws use of gender to assess risk

The general consensus is that insurance rates for women will rise rather than the rates for men being reduced.
Once again the only ones to benefit will be the insurance companies.

Surely, if statistically you are more likely to have to claim on your car insurance policy you should have to pay a higher premium regardless of whether you are male, female, have a car thats attractive to thieves etc etc

I think it's about bloody time to be fair. To say a woman is less likely to have/cause an accident IS sex discrimination. Can you imagine if an insurance company turned around and said black people are more likely to crash? There would be outrage. Or Muslims are safer drivers?

Area discrimination does need to go too, some insurers won't even quote me because I have an L postcode, despite the fact there has only been ONE incident of car crime on my street in the entire 17 years I've lived here.

 

[Catskins]

I remember hearing/reading that the statistics about the amount of accidents involving male/female drivers isnt all that different. The big difference is in the average cost of each accident.

I.e, male and female drivers have a similar amount of accidents but they tend to be minor accident's with females whilst males tend to be bigger/more expensive accidents.

 

[JohnnyBoy]

The argument about women haven't less accidents is only true because male drivers outnumber them by 50/1 apparently.

The calculations would take account of that.

They say that, but it probably doesn't. Lets use some hypotheticals.

Say for arguments sake the ratio of serious (expensive) accidents is 1:10 with minor (cheap) accidents.

If you've got 50 blokes driving round, and one woman, the blokes are far more likely to get into that serious accident merely by strength of numbers. It's nothing to do with anyone being more/less skilled, it's simply that there are more men than women on the roads. Therefore men are more likely to get into an accident, and the knock on effect of that is they are more likely to get into a serious accident.

Insurance costs should be based on experience, accidents, and license endorsements. And I don't think that age is a factor there. I didn't start driving til I was 23. I know people in their 40s learning to drive.

 

[franv8]

Whilst I understand questioning the maths, the insurance companies will pay a lot of people good with understanding maths and risk, and have a lot of data to hand, I think we'd struggle to challenge their statements and methods as laymen, it'll be very sophisticated behind the scenes.

I do find this situation ridiculous, I had a look under Mrs FranV8's bonnet, and found her to be built quite differently to me, and less likely to drive agressively, show off to her mates, etc etc, and the effect/difference more exaggerated the closer the age is to 17 .

Mental, what come next is ageism and all of us paying the premiums we did at 17.

I can see us distance ourselves from this court and its ruling, and this being one of the stepping stones to that outcome.

 

[JohnnyBoy]

Whilst I understand questioning the maths, the insurance companies will pay a lot of people good with understanding maths and risk, and have a lot of data to hand, I think we'd struggle to challenge their statements and methods as laymen, it'll be very sophisticated behind the scenes.

I'm sure insurance companies do pay people good money to do the maths for them. Problem is, the maths is not "How can we best represent the risk our customers pose", it is "How can we justify charging our customers as much as possible whilst retaining them".

Insurance companies do not have our best interests at heart, they have their bankrolls in mind and little else.

 

[el--lobo]

I'm sure insurance companies do pay people good money to do the maths for them. Problem is, the maths is not "How can we best represent the risk our customers pose", it is "How can we justify charging our customers as much as possible whilst retaining them".

Insurance companies do not have our best interests at heart, they have their bankrolls in mind and little else.

Very true Admiral just reported record breaking profits circa £290 million!! for their share holders to buy another ivory back scratcher.

 

[onweed]

Its about time females start getting what they themselves have been asking for, equality!

In the army females are complaining they arent aloud to do front line roles such as infantry yet complain when having to meet male fitness requirements.

For e.g

Males:

44 Press ups in 2min
1.5M run in 10:30 or less

Females:

20 odd press ups
1.5M run in 13:00 or less

They want equlity but arent willing to step up to the ball when they get it?

Im sorry but I only think its fair the females pay the same as males.

Insurance should be based on experience and experience only. Regardless of age. distance driven, years driven, driving quals such as pass plus, advanced driving, BMW advanced snow driving etc... The more qualified and experienced you are the cheaper less likely it should be for you to have an accident.

I find it disgusting how a 30 year old can get their license have no experience whatsoever but pay less than a 20 year old thats got 2 years no claims. Purely because they are over the "25" year mark...

 

[NoNumpty]

Same with Wimbledon - Women are now awarded the same prize money as men but play less sets

 

[Kremmen]

I've just been conversing with a colleague who's an insurance broker and his simple statement was:

The difference between male and female is huge. The cost per male claim is far higher than females. Males also tend to have more people in the car with them = more injury.