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How to diagnose and replace a faulty over pressure relief valve on a 2006 2.2 i-CTDi

173K views 153 replies 33 participants last post by  pwkempton  
Hi DP, would you mind if I put a link to this thread on TypeAccord... I've helped a few members there with this exact same problem and this write-up would make a nice reference there as well as here.
Jon.
 
I have this problem exactly. The EML came on as it got to the stage where it wouldn't start cold either. New battery, new glow plugs - no improvement (plugs had done 120,000 miles and battery was 4 years old). Took it too coal garage who couldn't diagnosed the fault so took it to Brayley Honda in Enfield. They diagnosed a glow plug ECU fault and replaced glow plugs (again as they said 2 had failed…) and put in a new ECU. All for under £500 which I didnt think was too bad. It now starts cold but not warm or hot. Had the RAC out to me to squirt in some easy start which got it going. Therefore must be a fuel fault.

Been back to Honda Brayley again - they have no idea and suggest complete replacement of the fuel rail and system as a meagre cost of ÂŁ2-2.5k. With 130k on the clock I don't really fancy that so will try this. Once started it runs well, if a little underpowered.

Any idea if it could be anything else before I replace the relief valve?

Thanks
It is very disappointing that a Honda dealer has failed to properly diagnose your problem. But, as you say, if it starts with easi-start then it must be a fuel issue.

There are two common reasons why the fuel rail fails to pressurise during starting, the fuel rail pressure relief valve leaking (as brilliantly described above) and the fuel injectors developing excessive leak-back, where the built-in lubrication path through the injectors (which then flows back to the fuel tank) becomes much, much greater on one or more of the injectors to the extent that practically all fuel pressure generated during starting goes back to the tank. This is often worse when hot to begin with, as the warmer diesel flows at a quicker rate through the injectors.

I'm assuming that you've not yet checked the fuel rail pressure relief valve for leakage, as described above? You really should! Don't let a garage fit any new parts without proof that either this valve or the injectors really are at fault, as all these tests are easy DIY tasks. Injector leak-back tests can be found on YouTube and basically consist of removing the lines back to the fuel tank and fitting plastic tubes to the injector outlets, running these tubes to clear plastic containers and then watching how much fuel comes out while the engine is cranked over (or allowed to idle)... injector(s) that flow much higher amounts than the minimum one need to be replaced (which can be tricky). I'd check the valve for leakage first, as it's really easy to do this check, and really cheap and simple to fix.
 
Ok that is amazingly helpful. There is more helpful information here than provided by Honda which is slightly sad really. I am grateful to you for taking the time to reply. I adore my car and want to keep it going!

I haven't yet check the relief valve as I had asked Honda to check the fuel system. They have just said they recommend replacing the whole rail which sounds like a typical main dealer response of we can't be bothered.

I will check the valve tomorrow and then the injectors as you suggest. I will post a response once I've done that and let you know which one it was (hopefully it will give a diagnosis!).
Honda will only sell you the complete fuel rail as they do not hold the individual items that attach to it (e.g. the pressure relief valve and the pressure sensor) BUT Bosch (who supply these parts to Honda) do sell them through their service centres... DeltaPapa bought his valve this way. Or you can buy a secondhand fuel rail from a breakers, which is what I did.

Good luck, I hope it's the valve not the injectors.

Here's a Honda diagram (albeit for my slightly older Accord) showing the fuel rail as part #1 and the pipe you need to remove to check for leakage as part #3... http://www.lingshondaparts.com/hond...om/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SED01&block_02=E__3320&block_03=608 Look at those (ex. VAT) prices and weep! The valve is the thing installed at the lefthand (furthest) side of the rail and is not listed as a separately available part.
 
Checked everything this morning. Started by checking I could overcome the thread lock on the valve which I could do quite easily with a standard breaker bar. Had my home-made scaffold pole extension to the breaker bar handy but didn't need it.

Checked the valve and it is sending fuel back to the tank. I had also spoken to the 'technician' at Honda yesterday and asked them to check the valve and the injectors - they also said injectors were fine and valve was faulty - permanently open.

There is a diesel part specialist in Ipswich:
A.P. and E.M. Hewing

Evelyn Hewing
31
Roundwood Road
Ipswich
Suffolk
IP44LU
United Kingdom

Phone:07703903751
Email:andyhewing@gmail.com

who can order the part for ÂŁ102 plus ÂŁ4 P&P plus VAT for a Bosch one, not a copy so will do that tomorrow morning. I'm hoping that will be the end of it.

I'll let you know!

BTW - I'm still running on the original wheel bearings and clutch at 130,000mi. Anyone know if and when they have replaced theirs?

Al
Great news. Glad it was the easy and relatively cheap fix.

So you ended up telling a Honda tech how to test for this problem? That doesn't look good, does it?
 
I's expect it to run OK, once started, if the valve (or an injector) was leaking excessively back to the tank.

What fuel filter was fitted recently? Was the car OK before this? Your car should only ever be fitted with a Honda filter (actually made by Denso).

Any warning lights? I guess you would have mentioned this!

Welcome to Civinfo!
 
not sure what filter was fitted , had a mechanic i trust , do the service etc, and he 's been in an accident , and i cant speak to him.
It won't go over 2k rpm as it's in 'limp mode' because the ECU has detected the problem and there should now be a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) stored in the ECU, this could be read using an OBD2 reader... do you know someone who has one and could read the DTC for you?

He may be a trustworthy mechanic, but he may not have realised how sensitive this engine is to having the correct fuel filter!

Did this problem only happen after the car was serviced?
 
Hi jon , many thanks for your help , yes, i do have a mate with an OBD 2 reader who will check it tommorrow , and yes, it was playing up a bit before the service , (but not to this extent) but since it had run well for 2 weeks , i am confused and thought it best to ask the experts. once again many thanks for your help. would a pattern filter make this problem occur ? if so think that might be the first port of call , what do you think?
Never use a pattern/aftermarket fuel filter on these engines... this forum and TypeAccord are both littered with threads where cars have played up after having a non-OEM filter fitted.

DTCs P1065 and/or P0087 are both signs of needing to have the fuel filter replaced.
 
Hi Jon/all,
on the way into work this morning , the engine management light went out !!! still did the scan and the OBD 2 reader came up with p1066 , fuel rail preasure higher than expected , and P1086,fuel rail preasure(frp) regulator malfunction. HELP !! lol should i still replace the filter again , as i am not sure if it is a genuine part , or would it be best to replace something else ?
Probably not the fuel filter then! But do still check if it's a genuine Honda/Denso one, as it may still cause problems in the future.

High fuel pressure problems are rare. This will probably be due to the regulator solenoid on the fuel pump, which 'throttles' the incoming fuel supply (under the control of the ECU) to achieve the required fuel rail pressure. Here's a link to a thread of mine on the TypeAccord website where I go through a problem I had a while ago that required replacement of this regulator... my problem was slightly different (it was an electrical fault with this regulator that I had) but if this regulator is sticking then high fuel pressure will result. I cannot think of any other explanation for high fuel pressure! Fuel Pump Solenoid Removal - Diesel Faults - TypeAccord

It may be worth removing your solenoid and cleaning the plunger (careful of the 'o'-ring seals). As mentioned in the link, DO NOT buy the entire fuel pump if this part is suspected to be faulty... although Honda do not sell this regulator as a separate item, Bosch (who make the pump assembly) DO sell it separately. And part numbers for your Civic will probably be different to my older Accord!
 
running lovely yesterday , got in it this morning started up , running really rough (banging coming from N/S ,sound like exhaust against floor ) then PGMI-FI Llight came up ? pulling my hair out now lol
Mine did that when the fuel pump regulator was playing up! But many other things might also cause that symptom.

Do try to clean up the regulator piston when you get a chance. Did you read my TypeAccord thread?
 
Hi Jon, hope to get on this today, over the week end , had it not wanting to start for about 10 mins , first start of the morning ,(both sat and sun) to the point engine management light came up , then for the rest of the day ,it would be fine, (light went out after 2-3 hours,)would this lead you to the same conclusion as me , to check that regulator and the preasure valve ? really , really grateful for all your help/assistance with this.
I don't believe you have any problem with the fuel rail over-pressure relief valve (e.g. the original problem described by this thread), as this could not - on it's own - cause the rail pressure to be excessive, which appears to be the problem you are experiencing.

Assuming that the DTCs being registered whenever your engine management light comes on relate to high fuel rail pressure, then the most likely fault is with that regulator on the fuel pump (as per my TA thread). I would remove it and carefully clean up the piston on the end of the solenoid rod, plus check that the 'o'-rings are in good condition. If in doubt, replace it with one that has a matching Bosch part number.

The problem you are experiencing (and those DTCs being recorded) are rare... I have not heard of them being reported on any Honda website! However, there is not many fault conditions that can lead to high fuel rail pressure...
 
Hi Jon /All , finally managed to strip the fuel solenoid /reg , new 'o' rings etc , genuine honda filter fitted , then this week end. i was greated this morning with engine light on , with P1086, P088, AND P2017 !!! Do you please have any idea's where to go with this now, what to check next, or should i replace the solenoid? many thanks in advance.
P0088 indicates excessive fuel rail pressure. I cannot think of anything other than the regulator solenoid that could cause this (other than just maybe an ECU fault, which shouldn't be considered until all other possibilities are ruled out).
As you know, P1086 is the code relating fuel pressure regulator malfunction.
So, with the evidence of those two fault codes, I would say the regulator is faulty and needs replacing. Without a doubt, this is what I would now do... you tried to clean the regulator, which was worth a shot, but unfortunately that wasn't enough.

The P2017 seems coincidental...
Description of OBD II Fault code P2017

INTAKE MANIFOLD RUNNER CONTROL (IMRC) VALVE POSITION SENSOR A CIRCUIT HIGH VOLTAGE
Possible failuer of OBD II Fault code P2017


  • IMRC Valve Position Sensor
  • IMRC Valve Position Sensor harness open
  • IMRC Valve Position Sensor ground harness open
 
Hi, I'm wondering if this could be the same fault I have. I own an 06 2.2icdti and recently after driving for around 30 minutes or so the car loses power under acceleration, mostly from 2nd to 3rd. Once I've pulled over the engine would be ticking over but I'd be getting nothing from the accelerator, it try's but it just won't rev. Now once I leave it sitting off for 5 minutes or so the car would start again and I could continue on my journey until it does it again.

Now the car won't start at all when it happens and I need to leave it for around 20 minutes until it will start again. I've had it down at my local garage ( it actually broke down right outside it ) so he actually saw the problem first hand but he couldn't find any faults. I'm no mechanic but it feels as tho the car isn't getting any/enough fuel when this happens and that's why I'm wondering if this could be my problem. Any help would be much appreciated.
I'm fairly sure that your problem has nothing to do with the other faults described in this thread. Your problem sounds like a restricted fuel filter to me (a fairly common problem), but odd that you have no engine warning light, which I'm sure you would have mentioned?

When was the filter last replaced, and was it definitely the correct (e.g. Denso) unit? These engines are very fussy about having the proper fuel filter and aftermarket substitutes often cause problems.
 
Hi, thanks for the reply. There's no warning lights no. The car was serviced in January but I'm not sure if the filter was replaced or not. How would I check that, as I said I'm no mechanic but willing to learn.
If they gave you a completed service schedule then it should've been recorded that they replaced it... or maybe call them and ask. Was it serviced by a Honda dealer? They are the only ones I'd trust to definitely fit the correct part, but even they don't always bother to replace the filter anymore!

If in doubt, you'll have to check it yourself... unlike my Accord I believe that it's hard to simply see if the correct filter is fitted without a fair bit of disassembly... http://www.civinfo.com/forum/how/56336-2-2-fuel-filter-change.html so I'm thinking that you should maybe buy the correct Denso filter first, then aim to replace the one you have.
 
Cheers for the reply, it wasn't a honda dealer that serviced it, it was just my local garage. I was reading that thread after I posted earlier and it seems like a finicky job, i'm sure I could manage it tho. I've ordered a new denso fuel filter, it was only ÂŁ28 so I'll see if that helps things run smoother. I'm at the point now where I'm scared to actually take the car out as I don't know where or when it's gonna fail. So hopefully this is my problem and this fuel filter rectifies it.
I can't promise you that replacing the FF will definitely fix this problem, but it needs to be ruled out before moving onto other possible faults. So fingers crossed!
 
Hi All , dont believe It !!! well , changed the fuel pump reg solenoid , all good for three weeks . went on a little road trip this week end and had PGM-FI come up 6 times! (have checked code 1026 found to say that Fuel preasure to low now! when i check engine bay as soonas this happens i find the priming valve sucked in solid (as if you sucked all the air out of a ballon! ) i turn off engine, give it qa couple of minutes to come back to right shape , prime system , and presto fault clears , drives ok for another 20/30 miles then goes again? help !!!! (pleeeeeeease) lol
That's odd!

The rubber bulb being 'sucked in' like this points to a severe restriction in the fuel supply to the bulb. Not sure of the routing on a Civic, but try to follow the pipework down from the bulb to the tank and check for damage.