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Is your acceleration faster at half throttle with less lag than at full throttle?

Serious Throttle Lag

9K views 12 replies 7 participants last post by  AndyS25  
#1 ·
Hi all,

ok I broke it already..:rolleyes:...well I think something is broke anyway.
(Only had it two weeks and have nothing to compare it to).
Type 's' 2.2 ictdi throttle response.
No warning/engine/ecu lights.
No smoke...running BP ultimate.
Serviced/motd at purchase
22,000 miles Jan/07 model.
Heres the scenario....

Doesn't seem to have much power at part throttle at 1000,2000 rpm.
Its extremely difficult to stick to 30mph without having to use more throttle then I would like, to maintain speed. Almost like the power is supplied by the turbo instead of the engine. (Having driven a 2.0 petrol for the past 5 years, I expect a 2.2 diesel to accelerate just as well 'before' the turbo kicks in at low revs....and its like a 1.0 petrol) I end up sticking at 3rd gear 2000rpm 32mph just so i dont have to modulate the throttle as wildly to maintain speed (which drops with the turbo whistle). The mpg meter seems much happier at the same time between about 37-50mpg. If i try this in 4th the mpg moves to 25-37.

If I slowly push the thottle down (from 32mph in 3rd) from little throttle to full throttle over say 1-2 seconds, there is slight lag but reasonably uniform acceleration.

If I hammer the throttle to the floor, from say 32mph, in 3rd gear it just does nothing for 2-3 seconds (no exaggeration). Then picks up to what I would say is full throttle over say 0.5 second, and then it accelerates rapidly. It might have slightly less acceleration/power then the progressive acceleration when hammering the pedal. Difficult to judge.

I have also done a tank of fuel. 50% motorway 50% school run stop start 30mph. I got 38mpg on the meter.

So can all you diesel owners out there tell me if this is normal?
:grouphug:

thanks,
Mick
 
#2 ·
I actually think that what you are experiencing is normal for a turbo diesel.

I'm not clued up on how the throttle works but it's not like a petrol so hammering the throttle doesn't react the same. I think nice and gentle on the accelerator pedel and you will have the turbo spinning up in no time.

More reading about the throttle here
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/engines-transmission/31276-blow-off-2-2-a.html
 
#6 ·
Driving Style

Thanks for the link....read with interest.

I am used to flooring a car when I want to overtake and expect to take off.
:confused:

Gets scary around miles of blind corners and hill crests when you dont know when the power is going to kick in...:hmpf:...will I get past another car before a car comes over the hill or round the corner ?
:2in1:
Do you lot just stamp and pray...:afraid::saint:
....or wait for 10 miles for a dual carriageway?



I actually think that what you are experiencing is normal for a turbo diesel.

I'm not clued up on how the throttle works but it's not like a petrol so hammering the throttle doesn't react the same. I think nice and gentle on the accelerator pedel and you will have the turbo spinning up in no time.

More reading about the throttle here
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/engines-transmission/31276-blow-off-2-2-a.html
 
#3 ·
Seems normal to me. It's due to the torque delivery. Power is gradual starting low and gradually rising whereas torque is nearly full at 2000rpm but starts low.

Just needs more gear changing so you ride the torque curve.

I've attached an example torque curve that may explain it better for you.

Image
 
#7 ·
Thanks.

Just out of interest.....what rpm do you try to stick to for cruising for town 30-40, country 50-60, motorway 70+

Perhaps I need to study diesel driving with you lot ;)
 
#4 ·
Mate this oil burner is a touch laggy on the throttle/spool up but a tidy remap from our good good friends at Celtic Tuning sorts it out a treat.

You power will come in a touch sooner and alot smoother and for a lot longer making it a lot more driveable at lower speeds and at more tasty ones.

The standard map delivers the power in one huge lump and then another small one at the top of the rev range.

I know you will be concerned about ya warenty but in all honesty it makes the car sooooooo much more driveable.

Think the do a removeable option via a memory stick now so you can take it on and off at your leisure for services/warrenty work.

P.
 
#8 ·
Mate,
[smilie=m-moi.gif]

you know I am seriosly tempted..:rolleyes:
...and Celtic are weapon of choice


But you know if I whisper 25%+ remap to mr insurance he'll say
:secruity:
hhhhmmm give ya daddy a signed blank cheque lad and be on ya way.

Its out of warrenty at the end of January so that side does not worry me too much. Might have to do some serious clutch dumps though and try for a manufacturing failure. :worms: ;)
 
#5 ·
Sounds about normal to be honest. Its nice when the turbo kick in at about 1750rpm though, you'll start surprising yourself
 
#9 ·
Surprise myself...
...nearly stained the seat the first time I floored it.
:popcorn:

Reminded me of the first time I ever got on a motorbike...
...My cousins honda cb200..
...never driven one before.

Nice gentle throttle nice and docile.....ahhh, this isnt bad....so yanked throttle right back. How I didn't fly off the back, is my reactions are quick, so I settled for what felt like two dislocated shoulders instead, and a chronic case of miss whiplash. :stickyman:

Anyway, after two weeks I am beginning to get to grips with the acceleration, watching the road and watching the rev counter all at the same time. 4300rpm comes up very, very fast.[smilie=cheeky-grin:

Dont know how long it will take to get use to the handling. Havent managed to get the traction control blinking yet..[smilie=huh-ani.gif]..and I'm not shy about squaring up to corners. :boxing: Especially as Sir Honda just paid for two new front tyres :adore:
 
#11 ·
Oh for another 1000 revs before the redline...

I find for overtaking it's best to anticipate your maneuver. Basically I apply a little more pressure to the throttle to get the turbo spooled up, and then if it is actually safe to overtake the acceleration will kick in you the back.

It's quite normal for a diesel to accelerate slowly, very slowly. Basically you need a much bigger diesel engine to match a petrol engine for outright acceleration. The fix is to drop in a turbo, but then you've got turbo lag to contend with :( Fortunately a turbo has much more of an effect with a diesel engine than a petrol, so you suddenly have ludicrous acceleration without increased fuel consumption (OK, not 100% true, but I don't think it's totally innaccurate?).

I think I may have noticed your throttle position thing though. Flooring it doesn't really help, a smooth depress seems to work better. Haven't tested objectively though, so take my thoughts with a pinch of salt.

Oh yeah, and the engine (going purely by sound) doesn't like being below 1,500rpm very much. It also doesn't handle an incorrect gear as gracefully as my previous petrol. If I accidentally selected a too-high gear, the petrol would suddenly lose revs and I would then realise I'm a dumbass and selected the wrong gear. On the diesel, it'll be fine then it'll start to almost kangaroo. Lesson learned, never select the wrong gear by accident with a diesel Civic :p
 
#12 ·
This is my 3rd diesel car now and you start to learn when the turbo spools up. I've learnt in the Civic that if i want to overtake, keep the revs about 1800 rpm and the turbo's ready for you. If you have a tuning box or a remap i think the turbo does spool up that little bit earlier than standard (or it does on mine anyway). Without the box, mine used to get going about 1800-1900 rpm, with the box its down to about 1600-1700 rpm and you get the best mpg if you keep the engine at about 2100 rpm
 
#13 ·
My one do same. There is 1-2sec waiting time till start to pull. It doesn't matter i change at 2k or 3k rpm. Did you find out what was the issue? Its not normal for sure. I am doing wheel alignment and test drive, drive many of cars, none of them like that. My mrs 1.8d focus has not lag at all. :(