[MiCyran]

What we do not know is how many cars are in our situation. Are we (few of us) really so unfortunate, or is it a matter affecting a lot of 2012 models? Can't we make a group complain to Honda?

Certainly this is not an isolated case and there are many Civics from the beginning of production in a similar situation. After the publication of the material about R3A pistons in the MotoDziennik's YouTube channel, Honda Poland promised cooperation and willingness to solve the issue of the "strange" pistons. We look forward to the official announcement on this matter.

What oil type you use after repair? 0w20?

I forgot to mention this previously, but the first 1,000 km (engine "break-in" time) I drove with Ravenol 5W30 HCL. For the next 10,000 km I used Liqui Moly Synthoil Longtime 0W30 and now I have AMSOIL 0W30 Signature Series poured.

And I understand the pistons were second hand but the rings were new. What did the dealer say when you discovered the pistons inside the engine were not the ones from the parts catalogue? Did you communicate this to an official Honda dealer?

Pistons came from an engine of very low mileage (about 8,000 km).
My car was imported from Germany, so I didn't contact a local Honda dealer to report my "discovery". However, I know from my Polish colleagues that some authorized Honda services confirm our observations, while others are silent and hide behind internal regulations.

And is there any difference in how the engine runs after the repair? Is it the same as before except the oil consumption is gone? This is the part I am the most affraid of, that it will not run as smooth as it does now. Or rev so easily.

The engine runs smoothly and rev as easily as previously. I even noticed slightly improved fuel economy despite more frequent driving at high RPM.

 

[MiCyran]

We received Honda answers to questions about the R3A pistons! Please, rewind the video (https://youtu.be/Uz2jmBCujrM?t=240) to 4:00 and stop to read the manufacturer's explanations (questions and answers also in English).

 

[TM93HRC]

So Honda has no intention to carry some repair campaign for the affected cars. I wander how many of the 35.000 units have developed the increased oil consumption in time. Is there some legal institute in UE where we can make a complain? The americans have an agency NHTSA that investigates issues like this and forces the automakers to perform repairs and to extend the warranty. If I will have to open the engine and do the repairs, and if I have the faulty pistons inside, I will afterwards take legal action against Honda.

 

[bahatjez]

Dear MiCyran, Thank you very much for all the informations you gave there. I guess the better way to force honda to move is to create a group regrouping all the cases in Europe with motor reference etc...

 

[Clem]

Hello everyone,

The mechanic tried to take some pictures / video of pistons in my engine today, but I'm afraid that they are not as much useful than the one previously posted by Stoat.

Here is a link if you guys have good eyes : https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=12HCu_-Sk3pSTULJR4T4rr9Ub_7vg4JjY

On some pictures we can see some characters, but if I compare with Stoat's picture it seems to be the "IN" inscription. The piston reference is above on Stoat picture (and not visible on my picture I'm afraid).

If you think that this is not useful pictures/videos maybe I will try with another mechanic.

Good to see all information in previous posts anyway, thank you guys ?

 

[patrokloscy]

Try to use thicker oil. 10W40 or even 15W40

 

[TM93HRC]

Try to use thicker oil. 10W40 or even 15W40

I am not sure this is a good idea. Or better said, it will not fix the consumption issue. It is an oil which especially at cold will not flow easily. And a big part of the damage is done at cold start with insufficient lubrication.
This oil is far too thick for what this engine was designed to run on. I would go maximum to 5w40.

 

[MiCyran]

I am also think that it is better not to risk with such thick oil, especially that winter is coming. Instead, it may be worth using Millers IT Flushing Oil before the next oil change. Of course, typical engine flushing oil additives are usually ineffective, but this (supposedly) is more aggressive than the others.

 

[hexer4u]

I just opened the engine. Have pistons R3A. The last ring, the oil ring is stuck inside. The reason is that the metal has softened due to it being very thin.
The problem is now that I can't find any piston segment rings for this engine anywhere online. Tried even specialized apps, reserved only for shops, and nothing. Not even a part number or compatible option. I measured the ones I have and it's shocking how thin the metal is. 1.5mm for the oil ring, 0.8 for the second and 1 for the last one. The actual space isn't much bigger with widths of 1.5mm, 0.9 and 1.1 respectively. The 1.5 measurement is the same because the ring couldn't wear since it was stuck.
Since the price of the R1A is considerable from what I read here and I can't even find that part number, I am thinking of actually machining the pistons I have to fit other rings.

Does anyone have the part number for the rings for R3A? Ideally I will just use the original.
Then, does anyone have the part number for R1A piston and rings?
The only things I could find are in Russian and don't seem like what I need.
Thanks

 

[MiCyran]

@hexer4u , R3A pistons are probably those from the link https://www.lingshondaparts.com/part-search?partnumber=13010-r3A-G00. Unfortunately, since Honda stopped installing the R3A pistons in R18Z4 engines, both pistons and dedicated rings are not available.

The R1A piston catalogue number is (most likely) 13010-R1A-A00. Catalogue number of rings suitable for R1A piston is 13011-RNA-A01. Honda also offers a set containing piston and piston rings (catalogue number 06131-R1A-305). This set, according to Honda, is designed to solve the problem of excessive oil consumption.

This agrees with the information found on the site Honda Civic 5D; KR; 1.8 MT/AT: ????????_??????? (1.8L)

 

[hexer4u]

Thank you for your answer @MiCyran
Will try to see how I can proceed without investing thousands in the car. I actually found engines with ~30k km cheaper than the piston+rings sets.

 

[TM93HRC]

Thank you for your answer @MiCyran
Will try to see how I can proceed without investing thousands in the car. I actually found engines with ~30k km cheaper than the piston+rings sets.

I found also an engine like this. But how can you be sure it does not have the same pistons as yours? And models from 2013 are Euro6, compared to ours. You may need to take also the CAT + lambda probes + engine ECU. This if you intend to use the replacement engine. But if you just want to take the pistons...

 

[Jaames]

Don't know if this is of any help
I looked on Lings Honda at 2006 1.8 models, pistons and rings are listed at standard and +0.25 oversize. Is it worth investigating an earlier block, perhaps it will be the same and you could use it instead with all of the parts form your engine or perhaps an early engine will fit straight in just replace to the later sensors, throttle body, cat etc.

James

 

[Clem]

Hello,

I finally get a proper camera to take pictures of the piston. I did the operation yesterday based on MiCyran description, and here the result : I got R3A piston too.

Here is a link if you want to see more pictures / vidéo : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Y9XBF9z4bZdml_AccaZAmERUVsMCVi3w

That is a "good news" because it is consistent with ohers previous informations of the post, but I'm not sure how to deal with this problem with Honda shop.

 

[ivar43]

Hi folks,

I'm one of the guys from the french Honda forum that Clem has talked about in his previous posts. I've carefully read all the posts of this thread, and I'm well aware that a lot of things have already been said. So I'll try to get quickly to the point:

My 1.8 L iVTEC Civic from 2012 shares most of the symptoms that have already been described so far, in other words there's nothing noticeable except an excessively high oil consumption. In particular:

• the problem roughly appeared between 50 000 km (30,000 mi) and 80 000 km (50,000 mi), unfortunately I can't be more precise as I couldn't imagine at that moment that things were about to get worse;
• there is absolutely no leak from the engine, even after removing the metallic "plate" under it (this has been checked two times by two different mechanics;
• there is no weird white/blue smoke or oil smell coming out from the exhaust pipe, even when starting during cold days in winter;
• there is no noticeable influence of driving style, that is to say cruising at 130 km/h (80 mph) on the highway or driving fast on small rally-like roads (changing all gears both frequently and at high revs) over a comparable distance seems to make no difference;
• switching oil viscosity from the recommended 0w20 to 5w30 seems to improve things a little bit (in my case, oil consumption has dropped by roughly 30 % since I've switched to 5w30);
• unfortunately, I haven't already been able to correlate the weather conditions with the oil consumption, mostly because I haven't noticed such an influence and because I don't have enough data yet to provide evidence of this;
• I've noticed a slight decrease in acceleration during the past 2-3 years, but as I've been used to more powerful cars I always found that the Civic is a bit slow so I can't be sure it really does accelerate less.

Now my car has reached 150 000 km (93,000 mi) and I have to put 1 L of 5w30 roughly every 2 000 to 3 000 km (1,240 to 1,865 mi). I plan to continue recording every time I put oil in that damn engine in order to be able to detect an eventual fast increase of the oil consumption. In such a case, I will try to quickly sell my car to a professional.

In the meantime, I plan to send a letter to Honda in order to complain about the excessive oil consumption (even if according to them such a consumption can't be qualified as excessive) and try to insist on the fact that like most of you guys I've bought a Honda believing that the engine would be very reliable, which unfortunately has proven to be wrong so far in my case...

Luckily, I have a friend of mine who can borrow an endoscope at work, so I'll also try to see which type of pistons I have inside my engine. However, I don't think that I will have them replaced if Honda doesn't give me at least part of the money required to perform the operation.

Thanks to all of you, I'll keep you posted as soon as I have more valuable information to share.
Axel

 

[TM93HRC]

I do not think we have too many chances to obtain anything from Honda. I wrote an e-mail to the official importer in Romania, asking them about piston codes and stuff, and if they plan on raising this topic to Honda, and got no answer. To a previous e-mail in which I complained about oil consumption they responded within days with the bull..**** from the manual with "1L/1000km is normal consumption", and it is normal for this engine to consume oil. As soon as I started asking uncomfortable questions they stopped responding.
If we do not stand together and try to make a group somewhere (Facebook, Twitter) so that all interested people could find it and join, we will have no power against Honda. Because they will never acknowledge there is a problem with this engine. And at least in my country, 9th gen Civic is a very rare car. It is very easy for them to say it is not a common issue.

 

[Das]

..**** from the manual with "1L/1000km is normal consumption", and it is normal for this engine to consume oil.

This is just a cop out and I think most manufacturers state this. My R18A has 80K on the clock, I use 0w 20 and it has used no notable oil since its last oil change back in march (around 5k). Personally I think most oil consumption is due to stupid Oil change intervals(by either Manufacturer or Owners), poor quality oil, or the wrong grade being used, even Dealers use poor quality oil to extend profit margins.

 

[Jaames]

Clem, I think a good idea will be to get some pictures of the top of R1A pistons, I think they will be much lighter in colour than yours showing that the engine is not burning oil. This may be some use with a claim on Honda to demonstrate the difference.
I also wondered if the engine management system will be reducing the fuel being fed to the engine as it is burning oil as fuel which would give normal emissions readings.
Also if the engine is burning a lot of oil would this be producing Diesel type particulates that can only be trapped with a DPF? Perhaps an argument with Honda is that a gasoline engine burning a lot of oil is more polluting than a Diesel engine with a DPF.
Has anybody tried this test

 

[Alex_limpid]

Hey guys

I had the same symptoms on a 2012 civic and decided to open the engine.
I found R3A pistons and a lot of mess. see pics attached...

 

[Alex_limpid]