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Hi i have similar problem but now i see leak from return on fuel rail. On cold it start and shut down after few sec then whem i squeeze the rubber hand bulb few time it start with no problem at all. But after few hours i need to repeat all again... i change the pump, check injectors and sensors also the valve but it was from breaker so could be faulty as well? thanks for help
 

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Hi i have similar problem but now i see leak from return on fuel rail. On cold it start and shut down after few sec then whem i squeeze the rubber hand bulb few time it start with no problem at all. But after few hours i need to repeat all again... i change the pump, check injectors and sensors also the valve but it was from breaker so could be faulty as well? thanks for help
I guess it could be faulty. Best to follow the instructions at the beginning of this thread to check it.

Don't forget that poor starting problems caused by excessive leak back (fuel being returned to the tank) can also be due to the injectors being worn... this can also be assessed by returning the leak-back returns on top of the injectors into 4 separate containers and comparing the volumes (as described earlier in this thread) . But rule out that fuel rail valve first, as it's a far more common reason for poor starting.
 
As promised, a how to guide on how to diagnose a replace the over pressure relief valve on an 2006 2.2 I-CTDi engine.

Hope people find this useful.
Hi Delt P
- Just to say - YES - I certainly did find it helpful (In fact MORE than helpful). A BIG THANK YOU
  • you pinpointed - my problem - puuuur-fectly.
  • I was anticipating a long and arduous journey of.... advice, try, no joy - repeat - repeat.
Fitted 5 min - FIXED - Vunderba !!

Rather than disconnect the return pipe & collect in a bottle
- When hot - TESTED with ... a flexible brake hose clamp ... on the section of braided return pipe, that you show disconnected.
(making sure it was clamped clear of the - metal "push on" connection)
- started great - and was "proof of the pudding" as they say (I was ****-a-hoop thanks)

Ordered a genuine Bosch from ebay.
Left plastic engine cover off - until it arrived - and when hot just put the clamp on - started it up - took clamp off ... 'appy days.

A meter breaker bar helped :eek:) - and a fast switch over - meant - NO Need to bleed (Deep Joy - a job I hate)

- Been starting perfectly like a "good un" for over a week.

A Final Hat Trick
- Thank You - Thank You - Thank You
GazKaz
 
I have a very late 2006 Mk2 CRV 2.2 icdti

Has lost power although runs and starts well, apart from if you welly it over 3000rpm, it goes into limp mode...

I have a new pressure relief valve and a pressure sensor , BUT, there is not enough room to get a socket on the relief valve, and I doubt that if and when unscrewed, it would clear the 'pump' at the top to left of the valve... The one at the top left of the engine driven by the aux belt...

Any suggestions, apart from remove the pump??

A 17mm spanner will fit but there's not enough leverage to undo the valve... All that happens is I bend the spanners...

Any suggestions??
 
I have a very late 2006 Mk2 CRV 2.2 icdti

Has lost power although runs and starts well, apart from if you welly it over 3000rpm, it goes into limp mode...

I have a new pressure relief valve and a pressure sensor , BUT, there is not enough room to get a socket on the relief valve, and I doubt that if and when unscrewed, it would clear the 'pump' at the top to left of the valve... The one at the top left of the engine driven by the aux belt...

Any suggestions, apart from remove the pump??

A 17mm spanner will fit but there's not enough leverage to undo the valve... All that happens is I bend the spanners...

Any suggestions??
Have you actually diagnosed that your pressure relief valve really does need replacing? I wouldn't go changing it just because you don't know what else to do! And why change the pressure sensor?

The pressure relief valve developing an internal leak causes starting problems and rarely - if ever - causes running problems. What code are you getting? Sounds to me more like you have a fuel filter issue, which could be confirmed with a P1065 and/or a P0087 code.
 
Have you actually diagnosed that your pressure relief valve really does need replacing? I wouldn't go changing it just because you don't know what else to do! And why change the pressure sensor?

The pressure relief valve developing an internal leak causes starting problems and rarely - if ever - causes running problems. What code are you getting? Sounds to me more like you have a fuel filter issue, which could be confirmed with a P1065 and/or a P0087 code.

Thanks for that...


The fuel filter was changed about 3 months ago... so I doubt if that is the cause, unless, when I was driving a couple of weeks ago, there was a massive amount of slush on the road where the snow was melting... I'm wondering of somehow some water has managed to get into the tank from the sender unit area... and has found its way to the filter...

The code was P1065 on its own...

I would change the pressure sensor as that could be faulty... And not measuring the pressure correctly... Seemed to make sense changing both at the same time...

And at least I could remove them from the equation if the issues continued... I'm hoping to do the filter tomorrow, again, and see what difference if any that makes...

Can you recommend a 'VAGCOM' style scanner which would assist me in measuring pressures, flows, voltages etc? Can't seem to find anything online that does more than scan and delete a few codes...

TB
 
The fuel filter was changed about 3 months ago... so I doubt if that is the cause, unless, when I was driving a couple of weeks ago, there was a massive amount of slush on the road where the snow was melting... I'm wondering of somehow some water has managed to get into the tank from the sender unit area... and has found its way to the filter...

The code was P1065 on its own...
Hopefully you fitted the OEM Denso filter? These engines are unbelievably fussy about excessive filter restriction... Many aftermarket filters do give trouble! So if you are replacing the filter again please do bear this in mind.

The code P1065 does usually indicate a fuel supply issue.

I would change the pressure sensor as that could be faulty... And not measuring the pressure correctly... Seemed to make sense changing both at the same time...
I can see what you mean, but it would be best to change the valve and the sensor individually so you know when you've fixed it, especially when changing them individually is no more difficult.

The valve is a common failure on these engines. The sensor is not.

Can you recommend a 'VAGCOM' style scanner which would assist me in measuring pressures, flows, voltages etc? Can't seem to find anything online that does more than scan and delete a few codes...
I know that the 'Torque' app did not read i-CTDi fuel pressure, but I suspect that a correctly configured version of the 'Car Scanner' app probably would. Since losing my Honda I've been using the car scanner app on my Volvo and it amazes me how much sensor data it will give when correctly set up. You'd need an ELM327 type Bluetooth OBD2 interface as well.

Have you yet diagnosed that the rail valve is leaking or not? It's pretty simple and the instructions at the beginning of this thread are easy to follow. But - as I already said - the primary symptom is poor starting NOT poor running. The P1065 may sometimes be present, although that is more commonly associated with filter problems. Another P1065 cause is the fuel injectors developing excessive leak back/leak back issues but again this usually causes starting problems. Checking the injectors for this issue is also described in the thread.
 
Thanks for the info...

I will look into those app based things but I have a Carly Reader and this doesn't seem to do much...

I took the filter out today in order to swap it over, but the damned thing wouldn't release from the 'top mount' however,

I drained the filter bowl and refitted it until I could get hold of a filter wrench, as I couldn't find mine, and the car drove as normal... lots of power, (Has just under 200 BHP since its tweaks in the mapping field) and no limp mode...

Will swap the filter as soon as I get a chance and report back...

But thanks for the tip about the filter... Got a new Bosch one to fit so should be ok from there on...

TTFN.


TB.
 
Well I swapped the filter again, for a Bosch as this was suggested by Honda as the supply of Denso? had a lead time of 3 weeks!!

At the same time, I drained the fuel tank, cleaned it out along with the filter in the feed bowl, (Part of the level sensor) which had got quite mucky since I did the same a couple of months ago and all now seems ticketyboo!!

No fault codes and goes off like greased weasel ****!!

I guess that when I cleaned out the in tank filter previously, there was a disturbance of the muck in the tank and this stirring up of the dirt and sludge assisted in blocking the in tank filter and the main fuel filter in double time reducing the flow...

Squeaky clean inside the tank now so hopefully corrected that problem...

Thanks for your help and suggestions...

TB
 
As promised, a how to guide on how to diagnose a replace the over pressure relief valve on an 2006 2.2 I-CTDi engine. My thanks goes to Jon_G for his advice on the diagnosis and valve replacement. You follow this guide at your own risk. If you're not confident then please appoint a garage. Where I use the phrase bolt/valve I mean the over pressure relief valve.

Symptoms;

Hard starting when the engine has warmed through and is encountered in the early days of the fault, possibly first noticed when the engine has had to be restarted soon after a journey. In the early days of the fault the car starts fine when stone cold and if immediately switched off it restarts again, this can be done several times and is okay. It's only when the engine has been warmed through that the hard engine starting trouble emerges. The longer the engine has been left from last use the engine will fire up more easily; after 15mins-30mins engine will not start, struggles to fire up after 1hr, more easily after 2hrs. Apparently this may have something to do with the viscosity of the diesel when warm as it is then more likely to leak past the faulty relief valve.

I noticed just before I changed the valve that the problem was beginning to happen with the engine from cold.

No symptoms encountered when driving, just don't stall that diesel engine!

Tools for diagnosis; pilers, pvc tubing, a container, adhesive tape and rags.

Look at the engine. The fuel rail is the tube with several brass nuts with narrow metal tubes (fuel lines) attached. To the left hand end of the tube, easily missed, is what appears to be a 17mm bolt. Close by is a black braided flexible tubing (low pressure fuel return pipe).

With the engine off, disconnect/pull off the black braided hose, you may need a flat bladed screwdriver to get this started. Attach PVC tubing to the end of the braided tube, seal with adhesive tape, put other end of PVC tubing into container. A 1pt milk bottle seemed to rest quite neatly in the engine bay. Place rages under the tubing and the now exposed metal tube.

Turn over the engine for about 10-15seconds. Return to the engine bay and inspect the container. If diesel is present either in the tube or in the container the over pressure relief valve is most likely to be faulty. See photo.

Image


Congratulations, you may now decide if you want to replace the over pressure relief valve yourself or give the work to a local garage to do. The single most important consideration for a DIYer is being able to undoing that 17mm bolt/valve. It is seriously tight.

This is the bolt/valve

Image


To get the bolt/valve off I used a 1/2" 75cm breaker bar and 17mm socket. The bar was placed on the crook of my right shoulder, my left hand was supporting the 17mm socket to keep this as true as possible on the bolt to avoid round the hex bolt corners. I then lifted using my leg muscles. The engine rolls about a bit when you lift. I nearly gave up but on the final attempt the bolt broke (loud bang). I checked the fuel rail mountings as I was worried these had snapped the base of the threaded mounting studs through leverage action while undoing the bolt/valve.

The valve is a Bosch part at ~ÂŁ150. Note the fuel rail number eg xxx-RGB-xxxxx. A common number on the part found on the old and new valve was F166. On the part receipt it was called a "pressure limiting valve" p/n F00R001166. Use this information at your own risk.

Unscrew the bolt/valve but before complete removal place something that will guide the diesel from inside the fuel rail into a container. I used foil tape to force the flow/drip into a waiting empty sardine tray which proved satisfactory. If you don't use the tape to direct the flow the diesel will spill over the engine. Initially I was concerned that on removal the bolt/valve would be under positive pressure but figuring the over pressure valve was leaking the pressure would have dissipated enough. I wore safety glasses just in case of a squirt or splash.

Image


I compared the new and old part and these were no obvious differences of the old compared to the new. I also marked the new bolt/valve so I knew roughly how far I had to tighten the bolt/valve. This was done my matching the thread.

Image


To the left, old over pressure relief valve, you can see the extent of the forces applied in some rounding of the hex bolt corners.

Install the new over pressure relief valve making sure the new o-ring (supplied) is installed. I did not used thread lock. Initially I tightened this up by hand, then gently turned using a ratchet until it could go no furhter, then with the breaker bar turned approximately 1/16th to 1/8th of a turn which was where the new marking on the bolt/valve lined up with the original yellow temper/movement mark on the fuel rail. I used my torque meter after tightening but all I can say is that it was over 80Nm which was the upper limit of my 3/8" torque metre. It needs to be tight due to the pressures inside the fuel rail. I understand the bolt/valve has to withstand pressures reaching 1600psi, if the bolt/valve is loose it will fly out like a bullet.

Image


Job nearly done. At this point you can choose to fire up the engine or you can bleed the fuel lines at the fuel injectors.

I decided to bleed the fuel lines. For this you need to disconnect the electronics to each injector to allow the spanner greater access to turn the nuts as otherwise this can be very tricky. I then wrapped rags around the nuts, reconnected the electronics to the injectors and turned the engine over for a short while and then stopped. After removing the rags you can see the diesel weeping. Tighten up the nuts to the fuel line to the injector. Wipe up excess diesel, if any.

Image


Car should now start, maybe taking longer than usual as there could still be a little air in the fuel lines.

Idle for a few minutes. Check the bolt/valve marking for any bolt movement. Take for a test drive until the engine is thoroughly warmed through and return home. Recheck bolt/valve for any bolt movement, switch off.

Engine should restart with no hesitation :cool:

The job shouldn't take you long.
Undoing that bolt is the hardest part and possibly the only thing that could defeat the DIYer.

Hope people find this useful.
Many thanks for your advice here. My car had the identical problem and a £3 replacement from the scrappers solved it. Garage had advised me to scrap the car as it was going to cost too much to replace. Thanks again. Occasionally it goes into limp mode and throws up error code P1384. I just reset it and away it goebs but don’t suppose you know what it means. My reader says VVT control valve fault but that’s just a generic. I need to find the Honda meaning.
Thanks
Winston
 
My 2006 2.2 has been getting harder to start when it used to start very fast at the button push.

Test today proved the valve faulty. So expensive though! So it isn’t going to get replaced for a while yet.

I found it easier to go on the rail nipple.

Remember to make a hole in the top of the bottle so it doesn’t become pressurised and squirt diesel everywhere when you disconnect the pipe from the nipple! Guess how I know!

That leakage was from about 15 to 20 seconds of idling.





 
Concerning the Over-pressure Relief Valve Test...

I'm really confused as when I did this test on my 2008 FN3 Civic 2.2CDTI, fuel came at a constant flow out of the metal tube on the low-pressure side; no fuel in the tube or container, just all over the engine. I've been scratching my head as to what could cause the "reverse" flow. Does anyone else have this issue at all? The vehicle is exhibiting the hesitant start symptom, but once running, it is fine; other than when driven hard and hitting 100mph, it goes into limp mode with an Overboost error, easily cleared. When driven gently over 1000mph, the issue does not exist.
 
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